Taiwan causing beef

So it looks like the government passed an ammendment to go back on the trade agreement with the US to lift the restrictions from the Mad Cow infection ages ago. As much as I love Taiwan, I hope they get punished for this one. It’s unbelievable how blown out of proportion this whole issue has become. There is no science, or logical reasoning behind Taiwan’s stance on this other than that it is seemingly looking to protect local markets.

The US mad cow disease “outbreak” was close to a decade go, and saw only… what… 8 or so infections? And ever since this news broke, Taiwanese people have become so scared that they now are afraid to eat even choice cuts of US beef that they have been consuming all along. It’s understandable how people can get caught up in a fear campaign like this, but for the government to also fan the flames is irresponsible. There should be education on the real risks.

welcome to Taiwan… you should know that the real deal is not the beef, but no gains from allowing the beef to come. Taiwan is a huge market for US beef, yet there is “apparently” no good thing for Taiwan to accept to drop the requirements. There is no sweetener in the deal, so people only feel the bad taste of the deal.

I mentioned the issue to my brother in the US recently and he was completely puzzled, because his family eats beef regularly without any adverse consequences, as does most everyone he knows, and he was unaware of any potential health issues (aside from the ordinary harms from eating meat) and couldn’t imagine why Taiwan would have an issue with US beef. I didn’t know what to say. I don’t understand it either, except that it’s stupid.

Political power play? What happened to the visa free entry for TW citizens to the USA? What happened to the F16 for Taiwan and the subs?

I think this is the KMT beefgate strategy?

Remember how the Boston Tea Party started off the American revolution? Well the TWnese want to use hamburger meat to lobby for F16s, subs and visa free entry to the USA.

Or maybe even US territory considerations?

Something is afoot here me thinks.

Remember someone said no hamburger meat was to be found anywhere?

This is being completely blown out of proportion. This is one of the few decisions of the Ma administration that I agree with, but they have handled so many things so badly, the people simply don’t trust him and his administration. They have done a poor job of letting people know the facts of the situation – par for the course, I suppose. He only has himself to blame for this.

The Legislature is using this to score political points. It is obvious that Ma does not have control over the KMT. He is an utterly ineffective leader – both of the Executive Yuan and his party.

This is going to cost Taiwan, there is little doubt about that. Breaking a trade agreement with your biggest benefactor is usually a bad idea. As a nation that relies on exports, alienating such an important market is bad for business. Bad, bad, bad.

There’s even a sign up at one of the local Subways to ‘say no’ to ground beef. What’s up with that? I want my ground beef back!

Dante Coffee also has signs on their door saying “no USA beef”. Morons.

I’ve been waiting almost 25 years to be able to make my own burger in Taiwan. What a load of xenophbic bad taste. Can’t even blame this wave anti-American hoopla on George W Bush!

Thank you, too, Mayor Hau.

What decision? Can someone please explain the history of Taiwan’s restrictions on US beef?

I assume it all started 3 or 4 years ago, due to fear of mad cow disease (even though there have been relatively very few cases of MCD from the US – nothing like the many cases in the UK, Ireland and other European countries).

But wasn’t the ban on bone-in US beef, such as T-bone steaks (which I’d very much like to buy, thank you very much)?

What was the recent change in the restrictions?

Huh? 25 years? I thought the restrictions were just a few years old.

And, I could’ve sworn I used to see giant packages of US ground beef at Costco all the time. In fact, now that I own a rooftop and a barbecue and a real kitchen with an oven, I was very much looking forward to finally buying one of those giant packs.

Is US ground beef now banned? Does Costco no longer carry it?

Does anyone know the facts? I don’t.

I don’t eat beef so haven’t been following it too closely but was told last night by some Taiwanese associates that the ban is on any ground beef containing offal, and the offal itself. They said that the affected products are not actually sold in the US anyway, but only exported and that the ban is not actually on beef as in steak etc.

No idea if that’s true, just what I was told by some clued in locals.

It’s not about beef or health. The decision to ban it was taken by Su Chi, head of the National Security Council, who basically has been Ma’s Rasputin since they were together in high school and the China Youth Corps (as I recall). In other words, this is a Ma/Su special aimed at US-Taiwan relations. Why else would the national security council be involved?

The game is afoot. We only see the shadowy surfacing of actors for moments here and there, but what is going on underneath is quite interesting. Good luck deciphering it!

Vorkosigan

You sure? One of the people I mentioned in my previous reply is a very green doctor and high-up in the health bureau and didn’t mention anything like that.

[quote=“cfimages”]I don’t eat beef so haven’t been following it too closely but was told last night by some Taiwanese associates that the ban is on any ground beef containing offal, and the offal itself. They said that the affected products are not actually sold in the US anyway, but only exported and that the ban is not actually on beef as in steak etc.

No idea if that’s true, just what I was told by some clued in locals.[/quote]

Yeah that part about the offal is all just a bunch of local bunk. Here’s a USDA document addressing the issues:

fas.usda.gov/country/Taiwan/ … efFAQs.pdf

What decision? Can someone please explain the history of Taiwan’s restrictions on US beef? [/quote]

You aren’t aware of the recent agreement between the US and Taiwan to lift restrictions on imports of U.S. beef-on-the-bone, beef offal, ground beef, and other forms of so-called “risky” beef products?

This is correct.

At first, it was on ALL U.S. beef imports. Then, the ban on boneless meat products was lifted a couple of years ago (don’t remember the exact date). I didn’t follow it all that closely at the time because I very rarely even eat beef.

See above.

[quote]And, I could’ve sworn I used to see giant packages of US ground beef at Costco all the time. In fact, now that I own a rooftop and a barbecue and a real kitchen with an oven, I was very much looking forward to finally buying one of those giant packs.

Is US ground beef now banned? Does Costco no longer carry it?[/quote]

Costco grinds its own beef from boneless U.S. beef imports.

I have some, though those more in the know are more than welcome to chime in.

I don’t get the bold-faced part. The initial decision to ban U.S. beef was during the Chen administration. What ban are you talking about having been done by one of Ma’s henchmen?

Where’s Dan Brown when you need him?

What decision? Can someone please explain the history of Taiwan’s restrictions on US beef? [/quote]

You aren’t aware of the recent agreement between the US and Taiwan to lift restrictions on imports of U.S. beef-on-the-bone, beef offal, ground beef, and other forms of so-called “risky” beef products?[/quote]

Huh? I was obviously aware of a recent change. How could I not be; that’s the subject of this thread? I just didn’t know what is the effect of the change, which is why I asked.

I take it from your above comment that all restrictions are being lifted and we will soon be able to buy whatever US beef products the stores feel like importing? Is that correct? Bone in beef, ground beef, etc., should all be available?

I don’t give a shit about the politics. I’m just curious what products are or will be available/unavailable.

Ok, I just read the Taipei Times on the subject and it’s complicated, but this is how I understand it.

For several years, Taiwan’s Act Governing Food Sanitation has banned import of various beef products from countries with documented cases of mad cow disease in the past decade (apparently including the US).

The Ma administration signed an agreement with the US in October agreeing to lift a ban on imports of US bone-in beef, offal and ground beef, but the public apparently objected to lifting of the restriction, so KMT and DPP members of hte Legislative Yuan both worked on proposed amendments to the above law to overturn Ma’s decision and cave in to public pressure, which would apparently mean reneging on the agreement Taiwan just reached with the US.

Yesterday, in an unusual move, the DPP and KMT cooperated and agreed to pass the KMT’s draft bill to keep the restrictions in place. However, that was just the second reading of the bill and it will face a third reading next week. I don’t know what more is required to make it law, but it’s definitely not there yet, so at this point it’s all speculative, there is not yet any change in Taiwan’s restrictions on beef, and it will likely be many months, if ever, until a law might pass and we might expect to see different beef products on the shelves. (I’m not complaining or blaming anyone; just stating the reality.)

taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003462203

Today’s Taipei Times headline story carries further impact, referring to the inevitable ‘Chinese fire drill’ which has been brought on by this whole bungled sequence of events; the unwanted ‘beef’ now created between Taiwan and the US, and the implied diplomatic repercussions which Taiwan cannot so easily afford.

Re: [color=#400040]Taipei Times [/color]12/31/09
Ma sending delegations to Washington
Ko Shu-ling and Jenny W. Hsu

[color=#400080]President Ma Ying-jeou instructed the executive and legislative branches yesterday to send representatives to Washington to mend fences after the US government warned that legislative moves to bar imports of some US beef and beef products would “constitute a unilateral abrogation of a bilateral agreement concluded in good faith” just two months ago.

On Tuesday, lawmakers from the Chinese Nationalist Party and the Democratic Progressive Party agreed that no ground beef or bovine offal from the US would be allowed to enter Taiwan. The DPP caucus accepted a revised KMT motion to amend the Act Governing Food Sanitation that would ban imports of “risky” substances, including brains, eyes, spinal cords, intestines, ground beef and other related beef products from areas in which mad cow disease has been reported in the past decade.

The decision will be finalized in a vote scheduled for Tuesday. Passage of the amendment will partially overturn the Department of Health’s announcement in October that imports of US beef on the bone and bovine organs would be allowed.

The legislative move has caused dismay in Washington.

“We are deeply concerned and disappointed by reports that Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan has taken initial steps toward the passage of an amendment to the Food Sanitation Act that contains provisions that would unjustifiably bar the import of certain US beef and beef products,” the US Trade Representative office and the Department of Agriculture said in a joint statement on Tuesday.

“The proposed amendment’s provisions do not have a basis in science or fact and thus in no way serve to protect Taiwan’s food supply,” the statement said.

“If passed, this amendment would represent a new barrier to US beef exports to Taiwan, and would constitute a unilateral abrogation of a bilateral agreement concluded in good faith by the United States with Taiwan just two months ago,” the statement said.

“The Taiwan authorities should consider very carefully the impact that passage of the amendment in its current form would have on Taiwan’s reputation as a reliable trading partner and responsible member of the international community,” it said. “Science and facts — not politics or hyperbole — should govern our trade and economic relations.”

“This is a serious matter that concerns us greatly and we are monitoring the legislative process very closely,” the statement said.

Ma held a meeting yesterday to discuss how the executive and legislative branches should respond; attendees included Vice President Vincent Siew, National Security Council Secretary-General Su Chi, Minister of Foreign Affairs Timothy Yang, KMT Secretary-General King Pu-tsung and DOH officials.

Presidential Office Spokesman Wang Yu-chi told a press conference after the closed-door meeting that the Presidential Office respected the legislative consensus. The office also acknowledged that both the government and the legislature would have to shoulder responsibility for the issue.

The Presidential Office also supported an amendment that would allow the import of bone-in beef from cattle younger than 30 months old, Wang said.

In a bid to mend ties with Washington, Wang said Ma instructed the executive branch to send a delegation to the US next week to explain the situation in the hopes of minimizing damage to bilateral relations.

He also directed the legislature to form a lobbying group composed of lawmakers, experts, academics, consumers and civic group representatives to visit the US after the legislature goes into a recess late next month.

The Executive Yuan will discuss the issue during its weekly meeting today, Wang said.

This is not the time to decide who is to blame for the controversy because the nation needs to brace for possible repercussions, he said.

“It is bound to impact Taiwan-US relations,” he said. “The top priority is to focus on how to deal with the matter. We recognize the legislature’s intention to jointly shoulder the consequences.”[/color]

This is an all-time classic Taiwan moment in terms of political ‘provincialism’ vs real soveriegn identity issues. It makes for striking images of differences between the behavior of a legitimate republic and that of ‘locals’ engaging in social policy disputes over claims to ‘face’, when genuine strength in identity is not only vital, but far more dependent on international standing.

Why are they acting like The Philippines … without the foundations of Manila’s diplomatic strength?

One thing to keep in mind is that the Taiwanese people are genuinely upset over the decision just like the Koreans were. They don’t like being pushed around the by the US and they don’t like their own government sneaking around to make big decisions behind the people’s backs. Granted that this has been blown completely out of proportion by the media and grandstanding legislators, but hey, that’s Taiwan.

Also, although there are three readings of a bill, the second reading is decisive. The third reading is just a formality although maybe Ma will find a way of twisting the KMT legislators arms about this. Wang Jin-pyng (the speaker) says it’s a done deal. We’ll see.

While I think Taiwanese fears of unsafe US beef are overstated given the problems with food safety in Taiwan, this long piece of investigative reporting in the New York Times shows that there are good reasons to be concerned about the safety of US beef.