If Taiwan is concerned about safety, there are hundreds of issues of FAR greater relevance waiting to be addressed, both in its own food supply and in its streets and buildings. This is just xenophobic bullshit.
Who cares about US beef? it tastes like the corn-fed crap it is anyway. Eat REAL beef: Aussie beef, raised on desert grass alone (or Argentine beef). None of this feed-lot intensive farming crap.
[quote=“ludahai”]
Where’s Dan Brown when you need him?[/quote]
LOL. Ludahai, I did not bold anything.
Vorkosigan
[quote="Mother Theresa]
Huh? I was obviously aware of a recent change. How could I not be; that’s the subject of this thread? I just didn’t know what is the effect of the change, which is why I asked.
I take it from your above comment that all restrictions are being lifted and we will soon be able to buy whatever US beef products the stores feel like importing? Is that correct? Bone in beef, ground beef, etc., should all be available? [/quote]
Those restrictions were lifted weeks ago, though due to pressure from various groups, little has actually been imported.
If this passes (which it is likely to), these products will once again be blocked – and put Taiwan in violation of a trade agreement with the United States and return it to being in violation of World Trade Organization rules on the matter.
[quote=“Vorkosigan”][quote=“ludahai”]
Where’s Dan Brown when you need him?[/quote]
LOL. Ludahai, I did not bold anything.
Vorkosigan[/quote]
I bolded it – I was just trying to add a little dry humor to the proceedings…
And those last points, everything after the hyphens, are especially serious. Sure, I’d like to eat a T-bone steak. But more importantly, what a mickey mouse country this is when the president signs an agreement with the US about what appears to be a fairly simple matter, but the legislature caves in to irrational public fears and/or slimy politics and vetoes his decision, causing the country to breach the agreement (and the WTO agreement, as you noted). So much for trust, responsibility and credibility. The country is ruled by children.
Feiren, that’s a nasty article you linked to. Almost enough to get me off meat. Almost.
[quote]Eight years ago, federal officials were struggling to remove potentially deadly E. coli from hamburgers when an entrepreneurial company from South Dakota came up with a novel idea: injecting beef with ammonia.
The company, Beef Products Inc., had been looking to expand into the hamburger business with a product made from beef that included fatty trimmings the industry once relegated to pet food and cooking oil. . . [/quote]
nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html?em
But that article concerns only E. coli and salmonella in that one company’s products. Is it true that the hoopla in Taiwan is only due to purported fears of mad cow disease?
" The country is ruled by children."
Or maybe Peking ducks? 
It’s obvious why the DPP are making so much of the issue, politically: it’s just what the opposition does, it’s a chink in the administration’s armor that they can utilize for their advantage in the elections. The same thing happened with the Bayer plant in Taichung County years ago. But what’s interesting is that legislators within the KMT are using the issue to send Ma Ying-jeou a message that they don’t like the way he bypasses them in his decision-making process. It took Typhoon Morakot to force Ma to dump his man Liu as premier and get Wu Den-yih, who is not his man but has been doing a better job, in there. Lawmakers are thinking that they can at least get Ma to dump Su Qi, who made the call to announce the deal before the elections, even after US officials cast doubt on this plan as they knew the opposition would use it to create an emotionally charged atmosphere they could use to get more votes, so sure he was that the KMT legislators would fall in step without question. Whether Ma gets this message is another thing entirely, but they are obviously hoping that Su Qi can be replaced with someone more suitable for the position of secretary general, such as Jiang Xiao-yan. Apart from the legislators on committees such as the Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee, most lawmakers put a higher priority on their own interests than on international affairs, so any damage to Taiwan-US relations are either unknown or unimportant to them, and even if they do know, they’re obviously willing to take that risk to send a message of their displeasure to Ma by fighting him on this.
Most insightful, Poagao. Well said.
The best part is that this question is going to be an eye opener for the people who think the president runs the country. And Ma cannot come out with the excuse that the Legislature is blocking his agenda, because they dismissed that one when CSB was president. Ma is becoming an even more lame duck because of it’s own party.
Yes Poagao’s analysis is spot on. It’s all about politics as usual.
[quote=MT]
. But more importantly, what a mickey mouse country this is when the president signs an agreement with the US about what appears to be a fairly simple matter, but the legislature caves in to irrational public fears and/or slimy politics and vetoes his decision, causing the country to breach the agreement (and the WTO agreement, as you noted). So much for trust, responsibility and credibility. The country is ruled by children.[/quote]
Well, the US and Korea signed the KORUS FTA in 2007 and neither the US Congress nor South Korean National Assembly has approved it.
Taiwan’s elected legislators are more like predatory sharks than children. They see no advantage to them or their constituents coming out of the beef deal and they want to be consulted on future trade deals (such as the ECFA) that could seriously affect the interests of their constituents.
I wonder what will happen if MYJ is able to sign an ECFA, only for it to be completely washed by the Legislature. No matter how many agreements they signed, those agreements only become law after legislative review. And this is the message the LY is passing to the MAC and the Executive - you don’t tell us what you are doing, we will not let anything pass…
That’s not correct. The MA administration has explained many times that neither the legislature nor a referendum is needed to ratify the ECFA. The same was true of the beef deal. But the Legislature amended the law to prohibit parts of the beef deal. So yes the legislature can rollback the ECFA by passing laws to reimpose higher taxes on Chinese products but if they don’t act, the ECFA will take effect just by the Ma administration signing it.
Yes, i think it is fascinating to watch this. Good post, Paogao. Obviously Ma’s move into the Chairmanship was supposed to obviate stuff like this, but clearly he has no dominance in the Party. And the ROC presidency is weak – interesting that we’re seeing the same shit we saw in the Chen Administration – the Legislature will not do anything; and it will not be compelled to do anything. Scary for those of us living out here in the world those people have made.
Isn’t there a period of time (just like it was not observed during the first talks) where the Legislature can have a say on the agreement?
Anyway, just like this time with the beef, the LY is showing Ma that ultimately, law is above agreements, and that no matter how well/badly he negotiates them, they can be overturned by a simple change in law. In that case, the agreement will become null because it will be against the law to comply it. This will leave the Executive with less and less negotiating margin. Maybe next time, they should ask the Legislature their opinion instead of simply ignoring them.
Re: [color=#004000]Taipei Times[/color] 1/1/10 [headline story]
Premier in U-turn on beef delegation
Shih Hsiu-chuan
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003462374
[color=#400080]The government yesterday called off a plan to send a delegation made up of members of the Executive Yuan to Washington to contain the fallout from the legislature’s move to bar imports of certain US beef products.
Instead, a delegation mainly made up of lawmakers and representatives from non-governmental organizations would head to the US on a fact-finding trip, Premier Wu Den-yih said at a press conference yesterday.
It was an about-face after the Presidential Office on Wednesday relayed a message from President Ma Ying-jeou instructing officials from the Ministry of Economic Affairs, the Department of Health and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) to form a delegation to go to the US “no later than next week” to explain Taiwan’s stance on the beef issue to the US government.
Ma also wanted the government to arrange a trip to the US for lawmakers and representatives from civil and consumer groups who have concerns over the safety of US beef products to gain a better understanding of the beef industry.
The instructions followed a high-level meeting convened by Ma on fence-mending efforts after the legislature declined on Tuesday to endorse the protocol that Taiwan signed with the US in October that lifted the previous ban on US bone-in beef and various other beef products.[/color]
Re: [color=#008040]Taipei Times[/color] 1/2/10
Beef dispute won’t affect arms deal, premier says
Shih Hsiu-chuan and Jenny W. hsu
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003462427
[color=#BF0000]REPERCUSSIONS[/color]: [color=#0040BF]It is unlikely that the US would shelve its arms package or prevent the president from making a transit stopover, the premier and foreign minister said [/color]
[color=#000080]chinese fire drill - version 186b - with real fire & flashing lights[/color]
[color=#800040]“Reprecussionists” warming up[/color] [[color=#4080FF]coming soon: backstage exclusive[/color]]
#1 front page headline in the Taipei Times yesterday was “Ma promises better communication.”
I figured, of course, he’s feeling chastened by both parties, even his own KMT, rejecting and embarassing him like that, so he’s acknowledging that he needs to consult with them first or more or keep them in the loop or whatever. But I was wrong. The article was about closer communications with China.
Then there’s a smaller article on p3 where the Premier says the beef dispute won’t affect the arm’s deal. I guess it probably won’t, but I wonder if Ma still didn’t get the message from his party.
Now that the legislative has effectively reinstated the ban on the previously prohibited types of American beef the US has suspended the trade talks that had been scheduled for next month.
So on the one hand most Taiwanese complain of/fear international economic marginalisation and/or subjection to Chinese economic forces, yet they did the one thing guaranteed to stop better trade ties with the US.
It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )