"Taiwan Civil Government"


#1

The human garbage that calls itself “Taiwan Civil Government” (I wonder who ever elected them to that post…) no longer just spreads their drivel about Taiwan belonging to Japan. They have moved on to harassing elderly veterans. Time to lock this scum up. I have always wondered why the police would let that group march through Taipei and Kaohsiung with batons and uniforms. The article below has a video of the incident.

http://udn.com/news/story/1/1753163

And some more footage of “Taiwan Civil Government”’ harassment of elderly people:

Footage of the paramilitary units that belong to the self-styled "Taiwan Civil Government"
These people are definitely a threat to public safety.


#2

I’m against the exclusive position of the TCG from the beginning.

However, the fact is the KMT and the people that followed it to Taiwan were refugees, they are not any less of refugees just because they had an exclusive government and an army. The KMT further made refugees out of many locals. The KMT has since then denied any responsibility, and refused to investigate those responsible. For those who still refuse to see Taiwan as their home and insist there’s nothing wrong with the way the KMT treated the local population, they are still refugees of their own minds.


#3

As bad as her behaviour is, she has not raised a finger and you can’t lock people up just because they talk shit to people for fun.

I saw this coming a long time ago. Nobody apologized to 70 years of wholesale, government-led, systematic racism against the Holo-speaking people, and eventually you get this - racism thrown back at you. So if you want the government to do something, start by the gov. apologizing to make it right.

Then you can arrest people if they break the law.


#4

also, even if there is a hate crime law in place (and it should protect all ethnicities, sexual orientations, native languages, level of wealth, religions), this could be a hard case to call. The reporter claims the veteran began the insults first, and she is herself a Late Immigrant as well. It’s be like charging an African American with hate crime for using the N-word.


#5

Did the previous governments do anything when Taipei-based media glorified hate speech, assault, and all sort of ridicules against people who just happen to speak with a Holo accent?

What about the natural right of Holo, Hakka, and various aboriginals to be educated in their mother tongues?

Why, did you (the roc gov) make the holo speaking children refugee in their own land?

Out of love, or out of hate?


#6

Now this is taking an interesting turn: White Wolf and company have turned out to decorate the so called Taiwan gummit with eggs.

On an interesting note: my neighbors commented while we were throwing out the garbage that this whole sheneganian was for show, that it dod not reflect the average Taiwanese’s view. They piointed out how we lived, with old waishenren veterans/retired officials and benshenren residents living side by side. The store keeper pointed out how she and my landlady were like sisters, no matter their differnet origins, and shook her head towards the monitors showing Hung smiling forcibly at the cameras while supoosedly listening to the ol folk who had been berated.

I agree with her. This is a massive performance with the objective to exploit weaknesses and create chaos. Do not feed the trolls. The extremes are not the feeling of the general public.


#7

[quote=“Icon”]Now this is taking an interesting turn: White Wolf and company have turned out to decorate the so called Taiwan gummit with eggs.

On an interesting note: my neighbors commented while we were throwing out the garbage that this whole sheneganian was for show, that it dod not reflect the average Taiwanese’s view. They piointed out how we lived, with old waishengren veterans/retired officials and benshenren residents living side by side. The store keeper pointed out how she and my landlady were like sisters, no matter their differnet origins, and shook her head towards the monitors showing Hung smiling forcibly at the cameras while supoosedly listening to the ol folk who had been berated.

I agree with her. This is a massive performance with the objective to exploit weaknesses and create chaos. Do not feed the trolls. The extremes are not the feeling of the general public.[/quote]

WhiteWolf showing up is also expected, because the Mando-sphere Media for the longest time has been giving this piece of shit undeserved respect. A well known, influential pundit called Sissy Chen 陳文茜 for example has in public in numerous interviews helped portrayed a heroic image for him.


#8

[quote=“sofun”]Did the previous governments do anything when Taipei-based media glorified hate speech, assault, and all sort of ridicules against people who just happen to speak with a Holo accent?
[/quote]
Seems to have rolled harmlessly right off their backs.

In America, kids raised with bullshit go to school and are talked to in fluent bullshit.

By the way, everybody I know in Taipei speaks of Chinese people strictly in the third person, and often in derogatory terms. 中人 is just a polite euphemism for those thieving commies and slack-jawed yokels on the tour buses.

Gotta love a country where people feel free to speak their minds without it being a microaggression. I’ll take the casual racism of Taiwan over political correctness and cry-bullying any day. As for all the shouting and anger - I got used to that long before I ever set foot in Taiwan, growing up in a blue state. Seriously, many Democrats are raging assholes.


#9

The flip side of those pro-China loonies that scream outside Taipei 101?

As my Aboriginal wife commented, “They’re all waishengren to me”.


#10

[quote=“hansioux”]I’m against the exclusive position of the TCG from the beginning.

However, the fact is the KMT and the people that followed it to Taiwan were refugees, they are not any less of refugees just because they had an exclusive government and an army. The KMT further made refugees out of many locals. The KMT has since then denied any responsibility, and refused to investigate those responsible. For those who still refuse to see Taiwan as their home and insist there’s nothing wrong with the way the KMT treated the local population, they are still refugees of their own minds.[/quote]

The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.


#11

[quote=“Dirt”]
The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.[/quote]

Grudgingly, due to prolonged US pressure. But, yes.

Also, the idea that freedom and accountability to the people are concessions from above is a rather condescending attitude. The American revolutionaries didn’t owe King George. It’s why we believe in inalienable rights.


#12

[quote=“Dirt”]
The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.[/quote]
There were elections on local levels under Japanese rule in 1935 and 1936

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1936
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1935

And please, KMT did not give Taiwan democracy, it was fought for by the Taiwanese then handed by the Americans. KMT was (and still is) about as anti-democratic as a political party could get, they were not that much better than the Commies in China or Russia. CCK was forced to abolish martial law because of pressure from America. That’s pretty much the only reason.


#13

[quote=“Gain”][quote=“Dirt”]
The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.[/quote]
There were elections on local levels under Japanese rule in 1935 and 1936

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1936
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1935

And please, KMT did not give Taiwan democracy, it was fought for by the Taiwanese then handed by the Americans. KMT was (and still is) about as anti-democratic as a political party could get, they were not that much better than the Commies in China or Russia. CCK was forced to abolish martial law because of pressure from America. That’s pretty much the only reason.[/quote]

If you were to follow Dirt’s logic, be sure to say it like “The Japanese gave Taiwan something the KMT would not: democracy and rule of law.”

NO, KMT you did not. You learned democracy from Taiwan. You receive it from Taiwan. You didn’t give.


#14

[quote=“sofun”][quote=“Gain”][quote=“Dirt”]
The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.[/quote]
There were elections on local levels under Japanese rule in 1935 and 1936

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1936
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1935

And please, KMT did not give Taiwan democracy, it was fought for by the Taiwanese then handed by the Americans. KMT was (and still is) about as anti-democratic as a political party could get, they were not that much better than the Commies in China or Russia. CCK was forced to abolish martial law because of pressure from America. That’s pretty much the only reason.[/quote]

If you were to follow Dirt’s logic, be sure to say it like “The Japanese gave Taiwan something the KMT would not: democracy and rule of law.”

NO, KMT you did not. You learned democracy from Taiwan. You receive it from Taiwan. You didn’t give.[/quote]

Upvote!

If in 1949 or shortly thereafter, the ROC/KMT held universal elections for their actual citizens (Taiwan and the minor islands) then there would be some validity to Dirt’s claim. But after 45 years, thousands of lives, exile, torture, assassinations, secret police, 3 unelected dictators, protests, martial law, and soldiers firing on civilians - credit for democracy goes to the people of Taiwan, not the regime opposing it.

I would say the same about the Japanese colonial years. Less oppression is not a substitute for enfranchisement.

As a Taiwanese person (well, Taiwanese American) who does identify as Chinese, it depresses me that democracy has only found expression in Chinese communities that were colonialized (TW, and the less democratic versions in SG and HK). It doubly depresses me that more Chinese don’t seem to value it, but I accept that my values are not evidently shared by most of my co-ethnics (and hence my relative comfort with PRC rule for TW).


#15

[quote=“sofun”][quote=“Gain”][quote=“Dirt”]
The KMT gave Taiwan something Imperial Japan would not: democracy.[/quote]
There were elections on local levels under Japanese rule in 1935 and 1936

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1936
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese … ions,_1935

And please, KMT did not give Taiwan democracy, it was fought for by the Taiwanese then handed by the Americans. KMT was (and still is) about as anti-democratic as a political party could get, they were not that much better than the Commies in China or Russia. CCK was forced to abolish martial law because of pressure from America. That’s pretty much the only reason.[/quote]

If you were to follow Dirt’s logic, be sure to say it like “The Japanese gave Taiwan something the KMT would not: democracy and rule of law.” Before Japan took over, Taiwan was Qing.

NO, KMT you did not. You learned democracy from Taiwan. You receive it from Taiwan. You didn’t give.[/quote]

The Republic of China was founded on the principles of democracy for the people, the KMT followed through on that ideology. Taiwan, under Imperial Japan, well, the word “Imperial” pretty much says everything.


#16

[quote=“Dirt”]
The Republic of China was founded on the principles of democracy for the people, the KMT followed through on that ideology. Taiwan, under Imperial Japan, well, the word “Imperial” pretty much says everything.[/quote]

The Japanese are long gone and the KMT are fading fast. Let’s look to the future. How likely is it that this Civil Government outfit will play much of a part? Do they even matter? Are they a disease, or merely an allergic reaction?


#17

[quote=“rowland”][quote=“Dirt”]
The Republic of China was founded on the principles of democracy for the people, the KMT followed through on that ideology. Taiwan, under Imperial Japan, well, the word “Imperial” pretty much says everything.[/quote]

The Japanese are long gone and the KMT are fading fast. Let’s look to the future. How likely is it that this Civil Government outfit will play much of a part? Do they even matter? Are they a disease, or merely an allergic reaction?[/quote]

Oh, I agree, however, why shouldn’t the future include the KMT? The ROC is a democracy, afterall.


#18

The media is getting closer to the true motivations behind the self-styled “Taiwan civil government”: tax evasion.
Apparently the leader of that cult owes taxes and is even prohibited from leaving Taiwan.
Wonderful report by pro-DPP TV-station 民視.


#19

michaelturton.blogspot.com/2016/ … n.html?m=1

Michael Turton cites a Taiwanese news report purportedly indicating that the woman verbally berating the old veteran WSR, is herself also of part WSR family descent (see bullets at the bottom of the main article). I can’t read the Chinese well enough to confirm, but here is the article he cites:

chinatimes.com/realtimenews/ … 541-260401

Sort of adds a surreal nature to the whole event . . .

Also, I would have to agree with the sentiments of an article on Solidarity Taiwan regarding the distinction and cleavage between elite and non-elite WSR families. The WSR part of my family are definitely “non-elite” having come to Taiwan as orphans, low ranking enlisteds, and petty merchants.


#20

That word gave me cancer.