Taiwan Family Resident Visa - Nullified after divorce?

Hey there.

For the family resident visa for taiwan that foreigners who are married to Taiwanese spouses can obtain…is this thing made null upon divorce? Or is like a US green card where even if divorce takes place the visa is still good to go.

Hoping to eventually get TW citizenship one day.

Thanks.

[quote=“no1thinks”]Hey there.

For the family resident visa for taiwan that foreigners who are married to Taiwanese spouses can obtain…is this thing made null upon divorce? Or is like a US green card where even if divorce takes place the visa is still good to go.

Hoping to eventually get TW citizenship one day.

Thanks.[/quote]
I don’t think so. Once your reason for being here no longer exists, you’re out on your ear.

Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?

[quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in Taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]

It is up to the NIA officer to decide if they can let you stay for the duration of your ARC in the case of divorce. It’s not guaranteed but they can allow it. That said, it would only be for the duration so a couple years at max. You would still need to sort out your residency.

Before you divorce why not apply for an APRC? Remember too that you have to agree to and sign for a divorce so as long as you are technically together you can still keep renewing your ARC based on marriage.

[quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]
The job thing: No, you’d need to apply for a regular work-based resident visa.

The child thing: It’s not cut-and-dried. The authorities can make exceptions under certain conditions. Do you mean your ex has sole custody? If that’s the situation, it wouldn’t help your case I don’t think.
I’ve heard that people with kids whose spouse dies are given a JFRV based on their kids, at least until the kids are 18.

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in Taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]

It is up to the NIA officer to decide if they can let you stay for the duration of your ARC in the case of divorce. It’s not guaranteed but they can allow it. That said, it would only be for the duration so a couple years at max. You would still need to sort out your residency.

Before you divorce why not apply for an APRC? Remember too that you have to agree to and sign for a divorce so as long as you are technically together you can still keep renewing your ARC based on marriage.[/quote]
I see. So you’re saying I can apply for a permanent resident visa while married? Is this harder to do than the family visa? Are there any stipulations? I heard some things about having to stay in Taiwan half the year or something every year.

Thanks for the help!

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in Taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]
The job thing: No, you’d need to apply for a regular work-based resident visa.

The child thing: It’s not cut-and-dried. The authorities can make exceptions under certain conditions. Do you mean your ex has sole custody? If that’s the situation, it wouldn’t help your case I don’t think.
I’ve heard that people with kids whose spouse dies are given a JFRV based on their kids, at least until the kids are 18.[/quote]
Well, she’s not my ex yet, we merely have a rocky relationship that I can see dissolving in the near future once we move back to taiwan.

I’m not sure how custody would work out yet. I’d prefer my daughter to grow up in taiwan than the US and of course I’d like to be around her for her life.

[quote=“no1thinks”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in Taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]

It is up to the NIA officer to decide if they can let you stay for the duration of your ARC in the case of divorce. It’s not guaranteed but they can allow it. That said, it would only be for the duration so a couple years at max. You would still need to sort out your residency.

Before you divorce why not apply for an APRC? Remember too that you have to agree to and sign for a divorce so as long as you are technically together you can still keep renewing your ARC based on marriage.[/quote]
I see. So you’re saying I can apply for a permanent resident visa while married? Is this harder to do than the family visa? Are there any stipulations? I heard some things about having to stay in Taiwan half the year or something every year.

Thanks for the help![/quote]

Yes, if you are married you can get permanent residency which cannot be lost if you divorce. You do need to maintain residency for 180 days a year. Is that an issue? In any case, go to the National Immigration website and check out the requirements, or do a search on Fcom as that topic is well covered.

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“no1thinks”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“no1thinks”]Hmmm…even if I have a job already? I thought the big family visa would supercede a normal working visa. No?

How about if my daughter who is a taiwanese/us passport holder would be staying with her mother in Taiwan? Would I have no grounds to get a longer visa or citizenship easier via having a child in Taiwan?[/quote]

It is up to the NIA officer to decide if they can let you stay for the duration of your ARC in the case of divorce. It’s not guaranteed but they can allow it. That said, it would only be for the duration so a couple years at max. You would still need to sort out your residency.

Before you divorce why not apply for an APRC? Remember too that you have to agree to and sign for a divorce so as long as you are technically together you can still keep renewing your ARC based on marriage.[/quote]
I see. So you’re saying I can apply for a permanent resident visa while married? Is this harder to do than the family visa? Are there any stipulations? I heard some things about having to stay in Taiwan half the year or something every year.

Thanks for the help![/quote]

Yes, if you are married you can get permanent residency which cannot be lost if you divorce. You do need to maintain residency for 180 days a year. Is that an issue? In any case, go to the National Immigration website and check out the requirements, or do a search on Fcom as that topic is well covered.[/quote]

This is awesome news. Thanks so much. I’m feeling much relieved. I should be able to maintain residency. I just don’t know if my job positions will take me out of the country often. I suppose I’ll have to find something that won’t keep me away too often. The prospect of teaching english more than a few years bothers me though. But that’s for a different thread.

Anyways, thanks. I’ll start researching.

But don’t you have to live here without a visa break for a specific number of years before being eligible for APRC? Three or five years or something? The bloke isn’t actually in Taiwan yet, so presumably he’ll need to stay here for several years on his JFRV and just make sure not to sign any divorce papers, before he can apply for permanent residence.

But don’t you have to live here without a visa break for a specific number of years before being eligible for APRC? Three or five years or something? The bloke isn’t actually in Taiwan yet, so presumably he’ll need to stay here for several years on his JFRV and just make sure not to sign any divorce papers, before he can apply for permanent residence.[/quote]

Of course lots of regulations for eligibility. I don’t know this guy’s case.

You need to live in Taiwan a full five years before you can apply for permanent residency. If there’s a break in your residency - even if you go from a family visa to a work visa - your time will be reset and you will have to start counting years again.

Acquisition of Taiwanese citizenship (possible after three years if you’re married) is predicated on loss of original nationality. As an American, you won’t be able to reclaim that.

What nationality does your daughter hold?

To be honest, I feel your situation is a recipe for disaster.

You need to read through a lot of the threads on this site and strongly consider the possibility that if you come back to Taiwan and then end up divorced, your wife will take steps to first get your ass kicked out of the country and second ensure that you have no further role in the raising of your child. The foreigners in Taiwan who’ve had amicable divorces with reasonable spouses who give them joint custody of their kids appear to be a minority.

EDIT: assuming you end up in Taiwan and find yourself preparing for divorce, be aware (as has already been mentioned) that your wife will not be able to divorce you without your consent unless you’ve done something silly like committing adultery (illegal in Taiwan and punishable by a year in prison).

Also be aware that even if you’ve done nothing wrong, your ex/soon-to-be-ex can very easily turn vindictive and file some petty charge against you that will enable her to have you removed from the country. Mine (well, actually her brother) wanted to file assault charges against me. Fortunately, I was able to laugh in his face because in fact it was my ex who had assaulted me (at a public location in front of friends and cameras) and I had the medical report and domestic violence report on her biting me to make him drop the issue.

[quote=“sandman”]
I’ve heard that people with kids whose spouse dies are given a JFRV based on their kids, at least until the kids are 18.[/quote]

This law has changed. When I got my JFRV they told me that only divorce would cause it to end. Death of a spouse is not grounds for loss of JFRV. It sounded a bit strange my wife looked it up and sure enough, it’s in the most recent revised law. It didn’t say though whether you’d keep a JFRV for life or would have to change to APRC.

It’s been in practice for much longer than that.

For the OP, I wonder if the simple fact of holding a JFRV for more than the required period (is it still 5yrs?) is enough to make him eligeable for an APRC. A JFRV does not require you to be in the country for the 183 days per year that other residence visas do…Unless of course there is an added stipulation in the requirements. I can’t remember. Where’s North Coast Surfer when you need him, lol?!?

Thanks for all the advice.

I think it’ll be best for me to not get the JFRV and instead get a normal work ARC just in case things go awry. Lol @ adultery = 1 year in jail. I haven’t met a single taiwanese man who hasn’t slept around a bit. Ouch.

[quote=“citizen k”][quote=“cfimages”]Death of a spouse is not grounds for loss of JFRV. It sounded a bit strange my wife looked it up and sure enough, it’s in the most recent revised law. It didn’t say though whether you’d keep a JFRV for life or would have to change to APRC.[/quote]It’s been in practice for much longer than that.

For the OP, I wonder if the simple fact of holding a JFRV for more than the required period (is it still 5yrs?) is enough to make him eligeable for an APRC. A JFRV does not require you to be in the country for the 183 days per year that other residence visas do…Unless of course there is an added stipulation in the requirements. I can’t remember. Where’s North Coast Surfer when you need him, lol?!?[/quote]Let’s see… :ponder: Here’s what I know and what I don’t know.

  1. JFRV - There is no requirement to stay in Taiwan 183 days per year to maintain this status. You can come and go as you please. However, you must renew it before it expires. Depending on how long you decide, you can get 1 year, 2 years, up to a maximum of 3 years at a time. Most people I know opt for 3 years for $3,000 NTD until they get close to their 5 year mark and are going to apply for the APRC. No matter how long you hold the JFRV, it never, ever, becomes automatic permanent residency or citizenship in any way shape or form. To obtain permanent residency or citizenship, you must apply for it.

  2. APRC - To apply for permanent residency, you need to reside in Taiwan for 5 years, and for at least 183 days per year for each of those 5 years. You can reach this goal by maintaining a JFRV ARC or an employment based ARC during the required time. Read this thread for more specific information and details. APRC Application Procedures (Official Checklist)

  3. Naturalization - To apply for citizenship you need to reside in Taiwan for 3 years on a JFRV, and for at least 183 days per year for each of those 3 years. Individuals with an employment based ARC or an APRC and not married to a Taiwan national must reside in Taiwan for 5 years, and for at least 183 days per year for each of those 5 years. Read this thread for more specific information and details. How to get Taiwan citizenship–primer, FAQ and resources

That was the easy stuff. Now the hard stuff.

What happens to you and your JFRV status in the event of divorce or death of your Taiwanese spouse?

DIVORCE

When you get divorced from your Taiwanese spouse, you are no longer entitled to the JFRV. Why? Because the whole reason for being granted this visa status is “Joining family” which would be your spouse. When you get divorced you no longer have a reason for joining family as your ex-spouse is no longer your family member and can’t sponsor you for a JFRV.

Exception 1: In the event of having children with your Taiwanese ex-spouse you MAY be granted special approval to maintain your JFRV status until your child(ren) reach the age of 20. This is not guaranteed and you must apply for this status and receive a special allowance for it. It also depends on whether or not you’ve been awarded full custody, joint custody, or simple visitation. However, when your child(ren) reach adulthood, age 20 in Taiwan, you will no longer be able to qualify for a JFRV because your child(ren) will have reached adulthood and adult children can’t sponsor their parent for a JFRV, at this time.

Exception 2: Sometimes the NIA will allow you to keep your JFRV until the expiry date even after you have gotten divorced from your Taiwanese spouse, but don’t have any children. However, this is not automatically granted and you must make a request for special circumstances for this to be granted. If you are allowed to keep your JFRV until the expiry date, you will not be able to renew it again and it will be necessary for you to opt for a different visa status in order to stay in Taiwan when you reach the expiry date.

DEATH

Things may have changed by now or not. I do not know. Therefore, I will have to defer to cfimages’ experience of recently having his wife look up the relevant law regarding JFRV with regards to the death of the sponsoring Taiwanese spouse.

The only case I have been involved in where this issue has come up was back in early 2002. This was before the birth of the NIA and the Foreign Affairs Police of the National Police Administration were in control of all things “foreigner”. Anyway, there was a South African man who came to Taiwan in 1997 and he got an employment based ARC and worked as an English teacher from 1997~1999. He then married his Taiwanese girlfriend and changed to a JFRV marriage based ARC. Shortly thereafter, his wife was diagnosed with uterine cancer and after a very short battle died in late 2001. The APRC status was brand new in 2000 and the requirements for getting it were more difficult. Employment based ARC holders had to live and work in Taiwan for 7 years and JFRV ARC holders had to be married and live in Taiwan for 5 years. He had had an employment based ARC for only three years of the required seven and a JFRV marriage based ARC for only two years of the required five. No problem, right? Just add the two together and you have a total of five years living in Taiwan and married to a Taiwanese. Wrong. They wouldn’t allow him to add the 3 years employment plus two years of marriage in order to apply for the APRC. It was considered “cheating” the system. They let his JFRV have an additional one month validity past his wife’s death in order to get his personal affairs in order and leave Taiwan and come back and get an employment based ARC if he so desired. If that wasn’t enough of a slap in the face, there was also the distribution of his wife’s assets upon her death. As her husband, he should have 100% rights to her assets, right? According to him, NOT. Upon the death of his wife, her family had a legal right to 50% of his deceased wife’s assets and they were the type of people who insisted on collecting. Why didn’t he have 100% rights to his wife’s assets upon her death? Because he’s a foreigner. According to him, if he had been a Taiwanese citizen then he would have inherited all of his wife’s assets and his wife’s family would have had no claim to any of it. He thought about trying to fight it out in court, however, he got disillusioned with the whole episode, especially after losing his wife, that he apparently left Taiwan and went back to South Africa. I haven’t heard from him since.

NOTE: I have NOT independently researched and verified that a foreigner is only entitled to 50% of his Taiwanese spouse’s assets upon death and the spouse’s next of kin are entitled to the other 50%. Has anyone else dealt with this?

[quote=“Northcoast Surfer”]DEATH

Things may have changed by now or not. I do not know. Therefore, I will have to defer to cfimages’ experience of recently having his wife look up the relevant law regarding JFRV with regards to the death of the sponsoring Taiwanese spouse.

NOTE: I have NOT independently researched and verified that a foreigner is only entitled to 50% of his Taiwanese spouse’s assets upon death and the spouse’s next of kin are entitled to the other 50%. Has anyone else dealt with this?[/quote]

Well, I can tell you from experience that it is the case; I remained on a JFRV for more than a year and a half after losing my wife and even renewed it for a year with no questions asked. Not sure if it was legislated at the time, but this was in 2006.

With regard to assets, there are some pretty confusing laws in the TW inheritance code and I was pretty relieved to have some competent legal professionals helping me at the time. A lot seems to play on the fact of whether your spouse has his/her own household registry listing you as the most immediate next of kin. If your spouse is still on his or her father’s or other significant’s household registry as a dependant, they most definitely do have a right to claim assets. In my case, I had to settle for a certain amount to resolve and waive any claim that my wife’s family may have had to assets, even though she had put her intentions into writing in a will. I remember going to the land office to transfer the deed to our house and the agent behind the counter remarking how fortunate I was that her family was not contesting the agreement, so I tend to believe that it is the case. This might not be so helpful in itself, but it is a wake-up call to anyone to think about registering any assets jointly where it is permited.

chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati … CLA-to.htm

some news !

[quote=“tommy525”]http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2011/05/21/303176/CLA-to.htm

some news ![/quote]Yeah…but not necessarily good news at all. The only way to stay in Taiwan after a divorce is if you are alleging and able to PROVE domestic violence. If you can’t prove this, then it’s just a plain old divorce, so “get the fuck out foreigner!”

The law needs to be amended that after 3 years of marriage, a foreigner can attain permanent residency and a divorce for whatever reasons won’t effect the permanent residency status. Oh wait…that’s just like how it is in the US. :astonished:

Selective reciprocality.