be careful if climbing Taiwans high mountains. They are no joke.
[quote=“tommy525”]be careful if climbing Taiwans high mountains. They are no joke.
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003353326[/quote]
I’d really like to hear more about this as on the surface it seems these guys must have been woefully underprepared. So it snowed. Were they sleeping outside? It says they were in a cabin. Did they not have proper sleeping bags and thermals?
From what the article says, these people simply should not have been on a mountain.
So yes, please do not go to cold high remote places unless you have appropriate training and equipment.
Edit: I suspect the problem here is that Taiwan’s mountains are a joke, even compared to the smaller ones in England. A mountain has to kill a certain number of people before it garners enough respect to deter the clueless.
[quote=“Brendon”]From what the article says, these people simply should not have been on a mountain.
So yes, please do not go to cold high remote places unless you have appropriate training and equipment.
Edit: I suspect the problem here is that Taiwan’s mountains are a joke, even compared to the smaller ones in England. A mountain has to kill a certain number of people before it garners enough respect to deter the clueless.[/quote]
They’re not a joke, brother. They present a very different set of challenges from what you’re used to. When it’s wet up there, all traction vanishes.
How can you even begin to compare England’s ‘mountains’ with those here in Taiwan? They don’t even crack 1000m in England!!!
Taiwan:
Yu Shan (Mt. Morrison) 玉山:
* Main Peak 主峰 3,952m
* Eastern Peak 東峰 3,940m
* Northern Peak 北峰 3,920m
* Southern Peak 南峰 3,900m
Syue Mountain 雪山 3,886m
Siouguluan Mountain 秀姑巒山 3,860m
Wulameng Mountain 烏拉孟山 3,805m
Nanhu Mountain 南湖大山 3,740m
Central Range Point 中央尖山 3,703m
England:
Scafell Pike 978m
Scafell 964m
Helvellyn 950m
Ill Crag 935m
Broad Crag 934m
Skiddaw 931m
[quote=“Brendon”]From what the article says, these people simply should not have been on a mountain.
So yes, please do not go to cold high remote places unless you have appropriate training and equipment.
Edit: I suspect the problem here is that Taiwan’s mountains are a joke, even compared to the smaller ones in England. A mountain has to kill a certain number of people before it garners enough respect to deter the clueless.[/quote]
On the contrary, England only has hills. Taiwan has steep mountains. It get wet, it snows up there, etc. Don’t let the urban city life/weather down in the cities and towns fool you.
they was at 3700 meters in early spring…thats plenty high enough to cause you problems if you arent in good condition, dont have good equipment, and dont have survival experience…
I have been on a snowball fight on the top of Yushan. It’s a hike I would not attempt, unless I had a decent sleeping bag and good thermal underwear on.
If it rains for prolonged periods, I would get off the mountain as soon as I could, I have been part of a group, where the weaker people got into trouble as they ran out of dry clothes.
High mountains are ‘never’ like summer camp … even in Taiwan where some people would probably try to hike in blue plastic flip-flops …
Of course, though they wouldn’t have been at 3700m. That’s the top. The cabin would have been lower.
But that’s why I would like to have more info about this. Did they get soaked when it snowed? Not have waterproof gear?
Reporting on their ordeal without any info on how they got themselves into it is a waste of words. Let people know the mountains are challenging, but how to prepare yourself and how to learn from these fellows’ mistakes.
Of course, though they wouldn’t have been at 3700m. That’s the top. The cabin would have been lower.
But that’s why I would like to have more info about this. Did they get soaked when it snowed? Not have waterproof gear?
Reporting on their ordeal without any info on how they got themselves into it is a waste of words. Let people know the mountains are challenging, but how to prepare yourself and how to learn from these fellows’ mistakes.[/quote]
its funny tho’ cos the report said altitude sickness was a factor…but as you say 3700 is the peak and you’d have to be in pretty bad shape to descend from 3700 and still have altitude sickness bad enough to be incapacitated…
Well you know how Taiwanese generally start heaving at the very mention of a boat ride . . . welll extrapolate that one out and I think we have the answer.
And on this point, it is my belief we Europeans conquered the world cos we could handle jumping on and off ships. Meanwhile, one can imagine Zheng He and his crew heaving their way around to Africa and saying, “Sod this. Fuck whatever’s beyond here.”
HG
Of course, though they wouldn’t have been at 3700m. That’s the top. The cabin would have been lower.
But that’s why I would like to have more info about this. Did they get soaked when it snowed? Not have waterproof gear?
Reporting on their ordeal without any info on how they got themselves into it is a waste of words. Let people know the mountains are challenging, but how to prepare yourself and how to learn from these fellows’ mistakes.[/quote]
its funny tho’ cos the report said altitude sickness was a factor…but as you say 3700 is the peak and you’d have to be in pretty bad shape to descend from 3700 and still have altitude sickness bad enough to be incapacitated…[/quote]
You can get AMS after 2500m. Not much to do with how good of shape you are in though. It’s been fatal at 3000m according to my Tibet Lonely Planet.
I suspect the reporters just threw that in, though. After a week they were probably suffering from a lack of food. They would certainly have been aclimatized after a week. Unless they were suffering from being taken down the mountain so quickly.
Possibly. A Taiwanese friend of mine went trekking in Nepal, arriving with only the flimsy dress shoes she wore on the plane and just the regular clothes she would wear every day here. I asked her why she didn’t prepare herself - and she said she didn’t realize trekking in the Himalayas would be difficult.
I guess the Taiwanese local governments are sending out the wrong message by prepping the local ‘hiking’ areas with concrete and wooden stairs … so, people think that everywhere you go out hiking is as a stroll from the livingroom to the kitchen to get some soda …
one of the problems with mountain walking (and it’s always walking, never ‘climbing’ here in taiwan, even if the track gets a bit steep) is the changing weather. well, the same can be said of ALL decent mountains, really.
experrienced climbers will take everything they need, but less experienced climbers A) may not have all the gear, B) may not bring or even be able to properly use all the gear even if they have it, and C) may totally underesttimate the climb as they listenedd to a friend say how easy the trip was for them.
the walk to YuShan from Tatajia saddle is about 10-11km, and the path is so good you can run there and back in about three hours, carrying no gear (if you are very fit and are well acclimatised to the altitude). you have to trade off speed for survivability, though, by carrying more gear, and most people take two days to walk that track.
the track to Nanhushan across the central range is much more difficult, and is actually a fairly epic walk if you are loaded up and not fit. (i want to do it myself but have not yet found a partnerr in crime.) the nearby shuehshan (snow mountain) is much more popular as again the trail is well made and has easy in and out points. the nanhushan is a much longer walk, passes less places to stop, requires you to carry water, and is much more remote if anything goes wrong.
lets not blame the walkers too much yet. the article says basically nothing about their adventure. altitude sickness may have been a factor, as low level discomfort and headache are not uncommon in other complaints, and not many people can recognise pulmonary oedema or cerebral oedema anyway. the cure is to come down as fast as possible, which may not have been easy. they may have been trapped by ice on the path, or had their food stolen by bears, or even walked up there in tshirts and sandals. we just don’t know.
mind you, there are not many taiwanese i have walked with who were very competent or well equipped for all possible conditions, barring some aborigines. (Bunun tribe).
How can you even begin to compare England’s ‘mountains’ with those here in Taiwan? They don’t even crack 1000m in England!!![/quote]
Except for altitude sickness, height is not dangerous, in itself. England (and more so, Scotland) has lots of mountains that are plenty dangerous on account of confusing terrain, lots of erosion, routes that have no easy escape in emergencies, rapidly changing weather conditions, and so on.
Anyhow I think you guys are missing my point, which was not “England’s mountains are more dangerous than Taiwan’s mountains”. It was that Taiwan’s mountains haven’t killed enough people for others to start taking care, yet. I’m guessing mountain climbing isn’t real big here but will get more so.
[quote=“urodacus”]one of the problems with mountain walking (and it’s always walking, never ‘climbing’ here in taiwan, even if the track gets a bit steep) is the changing weather. well, the same can be said of ALL decent mountains, really.
experrienced climbers will take everything they need, but less experienced climbers A) may not have all the gear, B) may not bring or even be able to properly use all the gear even if they have it, and C) may totally underesttimate the climb as they listenedd to a friend say how easy the trip was for them.
the walk to YuShan from Tatajia saddle is about 10-11km, and the path is so good you can run there and back in about three hours, carrying no gear (if you are very fit and are well acclimatised to the altitude). you have to trade off speed for survivability, though, by carrying more gear, and most people take two days to walk that track.
the track to Nanhushan across the central range is much more difficult, and is actually a fairly epic walk if you are loaded up and not fit. (i want to do it myself but have not yet found a partnerr in crime.) the nearby shuehshan (snow mountain) is much more popular as again the trail is well made and has easy in and out points. the nanhushan is a much longer walk, passes less places to stop, requires you to carry water, and is much more remote if anything goes wrong.
lets not blame the walkers too much yet. the article says basically nothing about their adventure. altitude sickness may have been a factor, as low level discomfort and headache are not uncommon in other complaints, and not many people can recognise pulmonary oedema or cerebral oedema anyway. the cure is to come down as fast as possible, which may not have been easy. they may have been trapped by ice on the path, or
had their food stolen by bears
, or even walked up there in tshirts and sandals. we just don’t know.
mind you, there are not many Taiwanese i have walked with who were very competent or well equipped for all possible conditions, barring some aborigines. (Bunun tribe).[/quote]
i didnt touch their food, honest, ok maybe just a snickers bar…
is there a headcount on bears left in taiwan? i’ve asked aborigines before and they laugh and say yes they’re out there…but it can’t be many…
i was only half joking when i said that, but yes, i did think of you…
i don’t think there are many left, or cloud leopards for that matter. i have seen quite a few deer, muntjac, monkeys, pigs, goats, some kind of civet or whatever, out in the mountains here. and some fantastic birds! but no bears yet.
i don’t spend enough time in the really quiet places. methinks the few bears left are all very good at hiding.
This China Times article says that the four hikers on the trip were only lightly equipped. They had already summited and were heading back down. One of the hikers descended quickly to a shelter where he met another solo hiker. After half an hour they went back to the pass where they found the other three hikers, one of whom was already dead from hypothermia because they no longer had dry clothes.
The hikers said they knew bad weather was approaching when they left on the 17th but figured that it would not arrive until the 19th.
The failure to pack/maintain sufficient dry clothes and the idea that they could time the weather were in my view their fatal mistakes. This can easily happen in Taiwan’s high mountains because it is relatively easy for inexperienced and unprepared to get up high where the weather changes very rapidly. You must always be prepared with another change of dry clothes in case you get soaked.
And this hike should not be compared to the Yushan/Snow Mountain hikes where there are many hikers and the trail is relatively short and easy. Especially Yushan, which is almost a walk in the park. Conditions on high mountain trails other than the Big 3 (Yushan, Snow, and Daba) are usually much rougher and dangerous.