I believed everything Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahhaf said :shock: , so I will support reunification based on what the good scholar had discovered 
[quote=“Xinhua News Agency/The China Daily”]
Mainland scholar discovers ten major benefits of peaceful reunification
05/30/2000
The “People’s Daily” in Beijing publishes a signed article Tuesday deliberating on 10 major benefits of a peaceful reunification of China.
Chen Kongli, the author of the article, wrote the 10 major benefits as follows:
First, Chinese compatriots living on the two sides of the Taiwan Straits will enjoy emotional harmony. If a war breaks out between the two sides, the people of the two sides will be the mostly affected, the article says.
Second, the people of the two sides will enjoy safety, stability and peace. The people living in Taiwan will no longer worry about wars and instability.
Without peaceful reunification, the status of Taiwan is not stable and any separatist words and activities might lead to wars, the article warns.
[/quote]
translation–give into our threats and blackmail or you will be emotionally unstable, gee big surprise!
with these seats they will have exactly 0 power or say in decision making, attractive! i’m sure we can expect some leading janitor positions in the govt as well.
it will become even easier for taiwan investment to flow out
yes, we will gain the protection of the renowned Chinese legal system
no the mainland has never given us any pressure in this area. gee I guess we can trust their claims then, I’m sure our suitable status will be suitable indeed from their point of view.
that is a possible benefit if we have 10 billion dollars left after the commies get through with us
somehow i think the former will take precedence over the latter
i think our intended role is stated quite clearly here
I’m sure our neighbors must be awaiting this united China eagerly
our politics will be reduced to local powerless status, our int. relations go from shit to 0, our culture is swamped and god knows what happens to our education, little red books or something?
ok, sign me up now.
my rational proposal is to crumple up these ten points and play basketball with them.
i[/i][/quote]Souce: China Daily[/quote]
Juba, it is interesting that you post the opinion of a Chinese Communist to give some perspective. I just want to say though, that all the benefits mentioned in the article could come about without reunification. The real key is an end to hostilities and normalisation of cross-strait relationships.
I believe that the best outcome for Taiwan and China would be an independent Taiwan with friendly and peaceful relations with China.
I would be surprised in seeing some data on how many Taiwanese would still support independence if the political situation in China was different (i.e. the CCP went bye-bye …). Anyone have any poll data on this?
Annexation to China (we can’t speak of re-unification; Taiwan was never part of any Chinese-ruled Empire prior to 1949) is a simple case of Chinese territorial aggrandizement. Why should anyone accede to that?
There is no benefit from annexation to China that Taiwan could get that it couldn’t get on its own.
Of course, do the Taiwanese give a shit one way or another about independence? My take is, no, the vast majority of them don’t give a damn about their future. Taiwan is an island nation with the heart of a province. The KMT’s divide and rule policy was very effective in destroying any coherent broad-based ideology of indepedence. How else could that Peron-wannabe James Soong get even a single vote? I could never have imagined a people so willing to vote against their own interests as the Taiwanese. I am very pessimistic about the future of the island…
And before someone snap out about Bush, remember that he didn’t win the election; he got assigned the victory by one vote in the Supreme Court.
Vorkosigan
I have a personal philosophy about when 2 Chinese people are arguing. If a foreigner enters the argument, there will be one sure fire loser, he will not be Chinese. I stay out of Chinese-to-Chinese arguments.
I have to say it’s all a moot point. Like some psycho boyfriend threatening to kill his girlfriend if she doesn’t come back to him. In a phrase, “mental masturbation”
I like the status quo but it seems to be becoming more and more unattainable as times passes. I have to say that Taiwanese seem to be their own worst enemy most of the time.
LittleBuddhaTW brings up an interesting point about what if the CCP wasn’t in charge. Nice thought, but I think the flames of war would start as the generals of the PLA used their units out of the 2.5 million man army to carve up territories for themselves. I think China would fragment if not for the CCP at this time. They would probably have to go through a similiar process as Europe is going through now with ever closer integration. Has any Chinese ruling party given way to another in China without a war? I don’t know of any instances, but my grasp of Chinese is history is far inferior to yours.
I’d have to say Japanese colonialization for all its warts was the real booster for Taiwan. What is past is past though and Taiwan will have to form its own idelogy about who and what it is without wearing the rose-colored spectacles when looking at itself in the mirror. Unfortunately, i don’t see that happening.
CYA
Okami
I think more Taiwanese would support independence if China stopped pointing their missiles at Taiwan. If you put a gun to someone’s head you can get them to say yes to almost anything, can’t you? Often the question: “Do you support Taiwanese independence?” can be interpreted as “Would you like Taiwan to declare independence and then face a military conflict with China?” For obvious reasons only a small percentage of Taiwanese are going to answer yes to this question and it explains why most continue to support the status quo.
Why do most foreigners believe it’s not in Taiwan’s best interests to be merged into China?
China Jails Four Internet Activists for Subversion
Thu May 29, 2003 02:22 AM ET
BEIJING (Reuters) - A Chinese court has jailed four Internet activists for up to 10 years on subversion charges after 20 months in legal limbo, a human rights group said on Thursday.
The Beijing Intermediate People’s Court sentenced geologist Jin Haike, 27, and Xu Wei, 28, a journalist for Beijing’s Consumer Daily, to 10 years in prison each on Wednesday, the New York-based advocacy group Human Rights in China said. Yang Zili, a 31-year-old computer engineer, and Zhang Honghai, a 29-year-old freelance writer, got eight years each. . .
The four men were accused of posting essays critical of the government on the Internet and setting up the New Youth Society, a discussion group dedicated to exploring democracy and social reform. One essay was titled “China’s democracy is fake.” . . .
Human Rights in China said Xu told the court on Wednesday that police tortured him with electric shocks to his genitals. He slammed his head against the judge’s desk in protest, fell unconscious and was carried out by six policemen, it said.
I’m with you David, but this is precisely why those China lapdogs the PFP are so violently opposed to the holding of any kind of referendum on any subject at all. They know damn well the majority are not going to vote for secession to China anytime soon and thus don’t want the public to get into the habit of solving thorny or important issues by referendum.
Choice is great, but I have the feeling that the people of this island are not to get to choose what happens to them, especially with a pan-blue government.
I’ll give two good reasons why many foreigners in Taiwan are concerned and think, rightly so, that the future of Taiwan is their business as well.
A lot of us have a Taiwanese spouse - that means half of our family lives in Taiwan.
A lot of us have children born here and going to school here - that means this place is the childrens home country.
It really isn’t strange at all when you think about it, is it?
There are three choices: (1) be recognized as part of the PRC, (2) be recognized as part of the USA, (3) be recognized as independent.
The first one is sometime in the future. The third one is not viable at present. I guess that only leaves number two.
[quote=“Hartzell”]There are three choices: (1) be recognized as part of the PRC, (2) be recognized as part of the USA, (3) be recognized as independent.
The first one is sometime in the future. The third one is not viable at present. I guess that only leaves number two.[/quote]
Then of course there’s choice 4: Taiwan is really part of Katoombian Astroid Autonomous Collective #687, presently run by Martians.
Not only would it would explain a great many things, but it’s about as feasible as number two.
[quote=“Hartzell”]There are three choices: (1) be recognized as part of the PRC, (2) be recognized as part of the USA, (3) be recognized as independent.
The first one is sometime in the future. The third one is not viable at present. I guess that only leaves number two.[/quote]
I like this. Taiwan, the 51st state.
[quote=“Poagao”]Then of course there’s choice 4: Taiwan is really part of Katoombian Astroid Autonomous Collective #687, presently run by Martians.
Not only would it would explain a great many things, but it’s about as feasible as number two.[/quote]
We can’t ally with Martians – the common cold kills them, as Orson Welles showed in 1938. (Could this be the source of SARS??)
[quote=“P”]
A lot of us have a Taiwanese spouse - that means half of our family lives in Taiwan.
A lot of us have children born here and going to school here - that means this place is the childrens home country.
It really isn’t strange at all when you think about it, is it?[/quote]
After seeing all of these posts, it is this post above that sums up the closest why I think the way I do. I even own a house here and after almost 7 years in Taiwan, I am really starting to feel like this is my home, and I don’t want my home to unify with a politically Communist state. If I wanted to live in China I would move there now, wish Lien and Soong would do that.
Anyway, nice to see all of those posts against the pro-Commie KMT’s Opium pipe dream of unification! By the way, if the Pro-China faction spoke out for Democracy in the PRC, then I might actually respect those Commie butt kissers.
I have been to three June 4 commemorations in Taiwan. The first one was organised mostly by New Party people. Speakers included Uerkesh Daolet (Wuerkaixi) and Taiwanese singer Hou Dejian, who was in Tiananmen Square when it was evacuated. I’m not sure who organised the second one, but it certainly wasn’t the DPP. The third time was when Shi Mingde and Wei Jingsheng were invited to talk at Taibei City Council with Ma Yingjiu (KMT) as the host. The DPP don’t seem to be interested.
Wei Jingsheng and Shi Mingde
By the way, we are two days away from June 4 - anyone heard of any commemorative activity?
Don’t sweat it too much, you think those guys are looking for power so they can hand it to the PRC? My prediction: any changes after they takover will be 95% cosmetic, increased tourism/business links or whatever.
How come that foreigners mostly are pro-independence?
Well, I inherited my views from my wife (even though she thought that I was too happy about old Lee Denghui). Later on? well, I come from a western country with those pesky western ideas about democracy, so I think that the Taiwanese should have the chance to make up their minds by themselves.
I was curious if anyone knew the about this legal issue.
If Taiwan were to hold a referendum on whether they want to unite with the PRC or remain independant, or looking at it from the PRC’s point of view, hold a referendum on becoming independant. If the majority clearly voted for Independance, would there be a situation like East Timor and they could automatically gain admittance to the UN with the protection of UN troops etc. Or could the PRC, the second most powerful country in the world at the moment scare everyone away (even the USA)from allowing it to happen.
China has a veto on the UN Security Council. I don’t recall what happened in East Timor, did the UN have to pass a new resolution? If a new resolution has to be passed, China will veto. If there’s an existing blanket resolution that countries like the US could use as the basis for their actions, then maybe it’d work.
[quote=“Hobart”]I was curious if anyone knew the about this legal issue.
If Taiwan were to hold a referendum on whether they want to unite with the PRC or remain independant, or looking at it from the PRC’s point of view, hold a referendum on becoming independant. If the majority clearly voted for Independance, would there be a situation like East Timor and they could automatically gain admittance to the UN with the protection of UN troops etc. Or could the PRC, the second most powerful country in the world at the moment scare everyone away (even the USA)from allowing it to happen.[/quote]
The UN never recognized Indonesia’s annexation of East Timor. However they do recognize China as the legal administrator of Taiwan. The referendum would be disregarded by the world. The US has stated many times that it does not support an independent Taiwan.