Taiwan Independence: Realistically, how?

Well I think Donald Trump is probably the most full of shit person in the world so I don’t think he’d retreat from Japan and Korea.

Not that I think he or the senate would support us, it’s just that I think the situation would remain unchanged.

Trump is likely going to be the first US president to meet with a Taiwanese president. He has no love and no fantasy for a democratic China.

You’re telling me that no US president has ever even met with a Taiwanese president?

Bubba met with some nuns, but that was kind of a business thing.

Post presidency, he did meet with Ma.

Very prescient words and seems to be true. Its now more than 2 years into Tsai administration, are we any closer to de-jure Taiwan independence than we were 2 years ago, 6 years ago, 10 years ago?

De jure independence simply means that Taiwan is recognized to be an independent country by the majority of other nations. Whether or not Taiwan is actually independent is irrelevant in that context. So in that regard, no, Taiwan is no closer to being De jure independent.

Taiwan was once the De jure representative for China, even though it didn’t have actual control over China.

If we are talking about Taiwan formalizing its separation from China internally through law, I would say reforming the referendum act, making it less of a joke, would go a long way.

US will most likely oppose it.

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I still remember the good old days of this taiwan politics forum when we would get 10s/100s of posts daily expressing almost a religious fervour in support of formal/de-jure Taiwan independence (i.e. Republic of Taiwan). Anyone who was skeptical of such a view was basically shouted down to eternal damnation. This was 10-20 years ago. What happened? Because this forum seems a lot less energetic now. For the old-timers out there, you know what I mean.

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Well, even though supporting TI de jure independence is teh decent thing to do, the world geopolitik has changed in such a way that it is simply impossible. Taiwan, when the time comes, will be thrown under the bus. It will eventually be assimilated.

We use dto think when China falls it would free us, but as a wounded tiger, it will destroy everything around it as it does.

I mean, can you picture Taiwan performing a military feat a la Six Days War? Fighting against China with the US and its own generals against it? Wining a war here is as easy as just unplugging an Internet sea cable…

It would be instructive to look into just how that was possible. Not in a shallow, cargo cult way, but for deep understanding.

There are a lot of people who really hate Israel, but before taking their point of view seriously, look at just who those people are. Israel survives despite them. I do believe hatred of Israel is motivated by envy.

Taiwan would do well to study the history of Israel - both ancient and modern. Emulate the successful - when they’re successful.

Didn’t the Ottoman Empire end in 1920 or so? I’m having a hard time seeing the usefulness of the comparison.

People got stupider.
Semi serious. Most of the kids don’t read.

Develop nuclear weapon and arm Taiwanese civilians with guns like Israel and Swiss. I’m pretty sure China will behave nicer.

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I’ve been saying this. We’ve actually had a tyrannical gov declared the longest martial law here. You’d think people might want to have the right to have firearms after that.

US won’t allow that. They had requested it before. It was a nope nope.

The Kims didn’t ask permission and look at them. Front page with trump recognized by the world even though they will continue to oppress their people in a backwards country. Makes you think why the hell not. One ICBM and nuke program and the whole world is willing to give into your demands.

Eh remember China is great at playing victim… and we already have a reputation as troublemakers.

Nuclear weapons are meant as a deterrent. There is supposedly the mutual destruction factor to consider. China has no quelms on nuking this island to oblivion. In fact, at the latest excuse, they have enough conventional missieles to terraform it.

We realized the futility of fighting for something that the locals don’t have the stomach to fight for themselves. I’m not seeing people marching down Zhongshan N. Rd demanding an amendment to the constitution. 30 years ago it was a regular event.

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30 years ago, you mean 1988? Wow, I didn’t know that. That was the year Chiang Ching-Kuo died. People were marching for a Republic of Taiwan/de-jure independence back then? Learn something new everyday.

No, they were marching for constitutional reform mostly. In 1990 the National Assembly was due to be retired (this was all the old guys representing individual Chinese provinces). So the constitution required amending since obviously it would have been pointless to appoint new provincial representatives.