Taiwan: Low standards harming education

I dont disagree, my point is that even in the west liberal arts majors are forced to be baristas. my wife has a MA in linguistics, i have degress in political science and history, i know from first hand how irrelevant these degrees are and how difficult it was for us to find high paying jobs. For my children i would wholeheartedly recommend to be doctor / lawyer / engineer. CPA is also ok :stuck_out_tongue:
as for local work candidates, i agree with everything said here, i too blame the education system for stifling any initiative people may have.

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that type of thinking is probably what keeps them in shitty jobs. the optimistic way of thinking, that is to say how a person can actually get “ahead” in life is look at such jobs for what they are. education. people shit on mcdonalds not paying well without realizing it is really a basic job that has high turn around and has actually decent training in competence. it used to be respected on a resume as someone who could not be fired immediately as a high schooler…those days have passed.

at the same time, some of the same people shitting on that are promoting university degrees in art and people end up back at tea shops. Not to disregard university and actually important uses of such. such as doctors, engineers, research etc. but not the proxy bullshit we see now of brainwashing our kids to think a degree is proxy for adulthood without any real direction as to the usefulness of their study. nevermind their degree.

my opinion on that, having worked shitty jobs as well, is that is an education. and god damn if I am not thankful for getting paid rather than paying for it. not just that, i busted my balls doing free volunteer work because the faster i finished scooping shit, the faster the boss has to train me to do a new task or risk a fast positive worker doing nothing the other 7 hours. this fast tracks my education exponentially. And that really is about as clear cut as it gets. good bosses get this and weed out the gunk.

everything is how a person looks at things. as a rule, now, I just toss resumes and contacts in the garbage if I see them say smoking and playing cell phone games while waiting. waste of time, although one deserves to be heard at least once. some people just want to maintain their biological life. that is fine. others wants to grow and do big things. there are job opportunities for both. we dont need to enable everyone really. we should help the truly handicapped and disabled. but I draw a line at the lazy as being a physical condition requiring society to pay for. charity is great, as a choice. but not as a forced tax. Same.goes for the driven, but they deserve to be considered more than the unwilling. by proxy.


It is a crap salary. Working evenings, weekends. No tips, no proper holiday being paid.

But did they pay your wife 2-3 x salary considering she is more productive? My personal experiences are Taiwanese managers love to micro manage people, love to give job to lazy workers ad give them low salaries. They will prefer to hire 3 mediocre candidates and pay them peanuts rather than give one good salary. Maybe with more employees they create illusion of growth in business, everyone appear busy and playing game along.

I admire people working at McDonald’s and 7/11. I did it at 15 for a one month, cause I realized fast I am wasting my time. I arrange myself scholarship for being in reserve military, and got another scholarship for uni. Being paid as much as McDonalds full time worker. I listened to Charlie Munger speech how much McDonald’s is important to give first job to marginal type od employees. Sure, I bet Charlie never worked with his handa there. Neither his kids ever worked in McDonald’s. But hey, is great opportunity for your kids folks

Thinking a bit more about this thread: Taiwan: Low standards harming education

I feel it may be more accurate to say: [enter country here]: Low education harming standards.


Yeah, but most employers don’t care what kind of education or work experience you have when it comes to the salaries they offer. Generally, they want the cheapest person that holds the most qualifications. I know what I am worth and I was willing to leave a LOT of jobs when my employers didn’t want to pay me what I’m worth. I had soooooo many bosses brag to me and to the people around them about how qualified I was, constantly trying to make everyone else think they (the boss) had something that no one else could have, but when I asked for a raise or better benefits, especially when I told them that I knew that people in the same position with far less qualifications than me were being paid the same or even more, they tried to “put me in my place”. They would list all the ways I was not qualified and insist that a higher salary/ better benefits were only for people with other qualifications, even if those qualifications they said I needed had nothing to do with the ones I needed for my job. This is quite typical in workplaces everywhere. Businesses want to make money. Especially in Taiwan, the optics are far more important than the qualifications and the actual productivity of the employees. I spent years becoming more and more qualified, only to have employer after employer tell me “that’s great, but we base pay only off of XYZ, so this tiny amount is the only amount we can pay”. I finally found someone who did see value in my skills, and hired me for a great salary and benefits, but because I doing my job well, there’s a good chance I’m not going to be needed in a year or two.


I have a similar situation, but they’re basically making a new job for me so I can stay if I want to. The work will different than what I came for, which is fine because they treat me well and value me enough to find a way to keep me. I’ll try to stay here as long as I am in Taiwan, because I see so many horror stories on the flob but really the management where I am has been mostly fair and reasonable. I don’t think every decision the administration makes is brilliant, and sometimes they irk me, but such is life.

If they value you, they’ll find a way for you to stay. If you’re willing to adapt, that is


Although that is absolutely true. it is also true that employers are there to make money. they dont want fluff that fills a seat. in my opinion, if I were to go looking for a job, I wouldnt go look for the biggest companies with tens of thousands of employees. unless I really was top notch. sometimes being humble is good. but some industries truly are there to just push buttons and fill the seat. I would avoid those.

in teaching, I think there are many schools that are day care centers that simply need high test scores to appease their customers. but I can say from experience the easiest money made was innovating and getting shit done, not pushing buttons. people were paid (or fired) acxordingly! The onus is just as much on the employer as it is on the employee and the customer. and society in general. create wealth by volunteering time to make the community crave what is better. it all comes around. but we lack that it seems.

I know many companies that pay well and give raises often. I do too. but it is ~directly~ related to outcomes and ability as well as drive and potential. a company with 30 managers between new hires and the boss wont work like that. companies where the boss and his/her passion and dream are touching each employee down to the janitor do. Iw ould search those companies out. they are everywhere. but the work is finding them. not all work is paid.

A lot of managers aren’t willing to do anything to stop the tide of people that come in, work for a few months and then quit. It is easy to blame people for being lazy but when you see a trend of people coming and going all the time, it’s time to look at your company standards and treatment of workers. But many bosses use laziness of the workers as an excuse for their poor operation of a company.


Agreed if the company is of the sorts where there is room for growth and careers. most minimum wage jobs are essentially easy. good for kids to lear or seniors that dont need money but want to stay active and/or social.

A company that has loads of room for expansion and development should surely be willing to give raises to those that deserve them. Potential employees also have the right to pick and choose where they work. the world needs more of both of those!

Not every company is like Apple that has massive margins based on over priced products produced for pennies on the dollar. if anything, folks should start pointing their fingers there and extrapolating. Any such ngo that is involved with workers rights and that is happy about their new iPhone makes me cringe from my forehead down to the asshole.

It depends what industry you want to work in exactly. In our industry you do tend to need to have a hard science/engineering background to get into it. For digital marketing or IT or sales you could do certs and diplomas as you progress I guess. But even in our industry our sales tend to have a technical background because it’s…technical.

Some countries do well funding adult education, Ireland basically provides free uni courses for mature students over 26 years old. They used to give you living expenses aswell but not so easy to get now unless you were unemployed for a period first. So many go back and do that later on. Taiwan does have funding for adult education but the REALLY annoying thing about Taiwan is they fund people under 40 and they actively discriminate against those over 40 or so in terms of funding further education. It’s unbelievable but it’s true, I think they believe you are washed up at 40 or you should go and open a noodle stand. I don’t know what the fuck they think actually, just some government drones. Oh yeah Taiwan also doesn’t provide free or subsidised further education courses for foreign residents as far as I can see. Maybe somebody knows different?


Hmmm it could be that they don’t think they will receive a return on investment. If you graduate at say 45 and retire at 60 there’s only 15 years of potentially higher tax revenue from you.

Whereas if they fund someone who graduates at 22 they have 38 years if potentially higher tax revenue from you. So they are more likely to see a return on investment.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just another perspective :blush: I would like to further my education as I get closer to my retirement age as I don’t think I will see a return on MY investment if I do it now.
Once I’m closer to retirement age I won’t need a return on investment so I can study out of interest:)


What do you want to study? There’s lots of funding in graduate STEM degrees.

Yes that is what they think. But the thing is somebody who is 40 something could easily have another 20 plus years work and contributions. I just think it’s unfair and 40 is the new 30 and 50 is the new 40. Yeah I’m older than you lol. Besides lots of people can and would like to learn new things in middle age.


Diving ! I got refused by the national sports uni here in Kaohsiung that said the community funds were for citizens only, something along those lines.
Taiwan has heavy discrimination against non citizens, they wouln’t allow me do some tea processing course either just be an observer. Stuff like that. It’s not such a ‘nice’ country when you actually want to benefit from something.


Yeah I was thinking university degrees. Everything else is messed up. Good luck.

If you apply from overseas for those unis they offer scholarships, not sure how they would treat me as a local applicant? They don’t like us local residents benefiting from stuff is my impression. Again I am open to correction.

If you apply to a uni here as an international student living in Taiwan, you would still be eligible for the scholarships and funding. Where they might get you however is through ageist assumptions about students, depending on who is reading and assessing your file.


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Blockquote “I learned how hard it is to work for 10 hours for $2,” Munger said with a laugh. Munger also recalled working for Warren’s grandfather, Ernest Buffett, as their boss. “He worked us pretty hard … [and] he worked everybody pretty hard, except himself.”

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AFAIK the only ones that we cannot get are those offered by MOFA and MOST directly. For those scholarships, the applicant should not be a resident of Taiwan.

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Wait for a few years and they will open positions for olders as well, so professors can keep their jobs
Is as well a lot of people “retire” at 55 in Taiwan, meanwhile you have so many dinosaurs directors. So yes they discriminate against elders unless you are filthy rich and connected.

Couldn’t you theoretically put main residency to Ireland and study by distance?