You really don’t have a fucking clue, do you? 
How does the PRC’s population have anything to do with it? What are they going to do, send human waves swimming across the straits? Just how the hell do you think they will be able to use their advantage in numbers of warm, uneducated, redneck bodies to conquer Taiwan? Just how is it that they can crush you like ants? This kind of paranoia is just pathetic.
Israel has fewer people than Taipei (and is much smaller than Taiwan) but none of the Arab countries or any combination want to fight them anymore. The Israelis have kicked their asses each and everytime. Taiwan’s problem has never been lack of money, weapons or size. It’s simply a lack of balls.
Not to dispute what you say, Blueface, but it’s also my understanding that Israel has a lot better equipped and trained military than Taiwan.
So why doesn’t Taiwan get off the pot? Taiwan has absolutely no excuse for a shoddy military. None.
According to the CIA Factbook:
Israel:
Military manpower - fit for military service: males age 15-49: 1,279,277
females age 15-49: 1,237,926 (2003 est.)
Military manpower - reaching military age annually: males: 51,080
females: 53,496 (2003 est.)
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $8.97 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 8.75% (FY02)
Taiwan:
Military manpower - fit for military service: males age 15-49: 5,019,268 (2003 est.)
Military manpower - reaching military age annually: males: 189,967 (2003 est.)
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $7.574 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 2.7% (FY02)
You really don’t have a fucking clue, do you? How does the PRC’s population have anything to do with it? What are they going to do, send human waves swimming across the straits? Just how the hell do you think they will be able to use their advantage in numbers of warm, uneducated, redneck bodies to conquer Taiwan? Just how is it that they can crush you like ants? This kind of paranoia is just pathetic.[/quote]
They could give everyone a parachute and a rifle, drop them over taiwan, and then sink or swim. 
So why doesn’t Taiwan get off the pot? Taiwan has absolutely no excuse for a shoddy military. None.
According to the CIA Factbook:
Israel:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $8.97 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 8.75% (FY02)
Taiwan:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $7.574 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 2.7% (FY02)
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/[/quote]
AFAIK, Taiwan isn’t receiving ten billion dollars a year in aid – not to mention nuclear weapons design information – from the U.S., unlike Israel.
So why doesn’t Taiwan get off the pot? Taiwan has absolutely no excuse for a shoddy military. None.
According to the CIA Factbook:
Israel:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $8.97 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 8.75% (FY02)
Taiwan:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $7.574 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 2.7% (FY02)
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/[/quote]
AFAIK, Taiwan isn’t receiving ten billion dollars a year in aid – not to mention nuclear weapons design information – from the U.S., unlike Israel.[/quote]Would you have trusted CKS with nukes? He’d have nuked every city on the China coast if it suited him. I have heard, though, that the ROC has a few untested, crude nukes in its arsenal that were made back in the 70s. If so, I would doubt whether the things would even go bang. This, of course, is just a rumor.
Also Taiwan has antique American M-60 Pattons, these tanks are pretty big, which is not a good thing for a tank to be.
What Taiwan needs is a professional army. Then they could defend themselves. Or they could buy another countries army…hmmm it could work.
If it came down to actual fighting on Taiwan proper, there would be some really nasty street fighting. Even up the manpower numbers really quick.
Arm every person on this island either a Stinger, anti-tank, or HMG and anybody trying to invade Taiwan would be in for a big surprise. 
Care to test that theory JT? 
[quote=“Durins Bane”]If it came down to actual fighting on Taiwan proper, there would be some really nasty street fighting. Even up the manpower numbers really quick.
Arm every person on this island either a Stinger, anti-tank, or HMG and anybody trying to invade Taiwan would be in for a big surprise. [/quote]
Use the propane tanks on all those food carts for FAEs. 
Durin’s Bane, who in your theory would be doing the street fighting? My impression is that most Taiwanese, particularly the “military age” males, would just wait and see what happened unless forced to act otherwise by some authority figure. Not the stuff guerrilla armies are made of. Maybe if you arm their grandmothers (the ones who throw eggs at politicians) that would be a different story…
Taiwan does have a standing army and I would bet that their commanders would order them into action to defend Taiwan. Plus, soldiers usually fight when their loved ones are right behind them.
Oh sure, the standing army’s a different story (the purpose of boot camp being to turn good-for-nothing teenagers into soldiers) but then we’re at the mercy of their officers, many of whom may be in the Chinese camp.
[quote=“MaPoDurian”]
AFAIK, Taiwan isn’t receiving ten billion dollars a year in aid – not to mention nuclear weapons design information – from the U.S., unlike Israel.[/quote]
True, but up to about 1980, Taiwan was receiving aid. Alot. Between 1950 and 1980, Taiwan was one of the top 3 recpients of US aid. The other 2 being Israel and South Vietnam. And remember, up until the late 60’s, Israel got very little. They beat the Arabs in 1967 flying French fighters and driving clapped out British Centurian and American M-4 Sherman tanks. Taiwan refuses to spend on R&D…this has been a historical weakness of the Chinese military. They buy weapons from other countries, they are unable to maintain the weapons, things fall apart and then they have to buy more. Examples? In the late 19th century China bought ships from the Germans in order to build up their navy. Come the Sino-Japanese War, said Chinese navy ended up on the bottom. In WWII, the Chinese wanted bombers so they could bomb the Japanese…right. The US rightly refused having seen the Sincere Department Store debacle in Shanghai. One hundered + casualties as a result of Chinese pilots panicking and mistaking the department store for the Japanese fleet. Chiang wanted heavy tanks like the Brits and demanded them from the US. Stillwell tried to explain to him there were no bridges in east China strong enought to support the tanks. No matter, Stillwell left and Chiang got his tanks. After WWII, the Chinese Communists surrounded and attacked an armor position commanded by Chiang’s son Wego Chiang. Chiang abandoned his troops and with several other offices flew out to safety. The tanks were all captured by the Communists.
And of course recently, we’ve had the Humvee mess. Taiwan bout thousands of new Humvees from the US after the Gulf War. Now, they are going to have to be replaced. Why? No maintainance. No training for drivers and mechanics.
Talk with some of the Americans who have served as military trainers in Taiwan. Everyone I’ve ever known felt they were beating their heads against a wall. The Taiwanese have to incentive to try hard because they figure either they’ll get out when it hits the fan or the US will save them.
taipeitimes.com/News/archive … 0000170254
Sincere Department Store after bombing by ROC Air Force
[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“MaPoDurian”]
AFAIK, Taiwan isn’t receiving ten billion dollars a year in aid – not to mention nuclear weapons design information – from the U.S., unlike Israel.[/quote]
True, but up to about 1980, Taiwan was receiving aid. Alot. Between 1950 and 1980, Taiwan was one of the top 3 recpients of US aid. The other 2 being Israel and South Vietnam. And remember, up until the late 60’s, Israel got very little. They beat the Arabs in 1967 flying French fighters and driving clapped out British Centurian and American M-4 Sherman tanks. Taiwan refuses to spend on R&D…this has been a historical weakness of the Chinese military. They buy weapons from other countries, they are unable to maintain the weapons, things fall apart and then they have to buy more. Examples? In the late 19th century China bought ships from the Germans in order to build up their navy. Come the Sino-Japanese War, said Chinese navy ended up on the bottom. In WWII, the Chinese wanted bombers so they could bomb the Japanese…right. The US rightly refused having seen the Sincere Department Store debacle in Shanghai. One hundered + casualties as a result of Chinese pilots panicking and mistaking the department store for the Japanese fleet. Chiang wanted heavy tanks like the Brits and demanded them from the US. Stillwell tried to explain to him there were no bridges in east China strong enought to support the tanks. No matter, Stillwell left and Chiang got his tanks. After WWII, the Chinese Communists surrounded and attacked an armor position commanded by Chiang’s son Wego Chiang. Chiang abandoned his troops and with several other offices flew out to safety. The tanks were all captured by the Communists.
And of course recently, we’ve had the Humvee mess. Taiwan bout thousands of new Humvees from the US after the Gulf War. Now, they are going to have to be replaced. Why? No maintainance. No training for drivers and mechanics.
Talk with some of the Americans who have served as military trainers in Taiwan. Everyone I’ve ever known felt they were beating their heads against a wall. The Taiwanese have to incentive to try hard because they figure either they’ll get out when it hits the fan or the US will save them.
taipeitimes.com/News/archive … 0000170254
Sincere Department Store after bombing by ROC Air Force[/quote]
In addition to your points, part of the problem also was and is, and did occur in the historical examples you cited, not how much money was earmarked, or received in aid, or planned for this “military budget”, but how much of it was siphoned away and pocketed by the Great Leaders of China.
remember that Qing Navy? funds were diverted to building a stone boat for the dowager. and funds were used to build a very very nice flagship fit for a high official with the best interior design, furniture, art money can buy, but not seaworthy and certainly not a capable warship of her times. result? sunk by the Japanese. entire fleet gone. great humiliation of china by an upstart Asian power blah blah.
remember the Chinese Army to fight the Japanese? funds were pocketed by the Chiangs and his cronies.
dude that is a crappy comparison…China has the largest standing army in the world and hundreds of nukes…likewise although these figures arent disclosed israel is estimated to have several hundred nuclear weapons…they did allegedly steal uranium in the past… they are not accurate comparisons to draw. This has played a heavy deterrent in the middle east crisis. Furthermore those countries that waged war with israel that were beat are arguably more backwards than china. If you take into account the purchasing parity of the RMB within mainland china then you should look at it as a 1-1 or 1-2 ratio with the US dollar rather than a 1-8…so in other words multiply chinese military spending by 4 or 8 depending if you conservative or not. Taiwan would get their asses kicked by china in a war, you are lying to yourself otherwise.