Taiwan population decline

This sounds quite a bit like the short-termism espoused by right wingers who don’t give a toss about environmental destruction and climate issues.

The paths I am talking about are entirely different, with functional government, long-term environmental care, and NOT the short-termism of the modern right wing parties who currently are the absolute worst for long-term sustainability.

Good night.

Guy

So what exactly were you referring to?

Decrease the population size so we have less and less people so it would be better on the environment?

Might as well have no humans at all lol.

Good night

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Society fell off decades ago when they pushed everyone to work and then corporations figured they could milk two incomes now. In Canada for example if you can’t get on subsidized daycare it’s almost not worth it for one parent to work. Good luck on one income with kids unless you are upper management.
The problem goes deeper where such high standards are pushed on men by the media, many guys have given up trying to get dates. There was a speed dating meetup in some US city where they were begging for guys to sign up as it was mostly women. Well guys figure they don’t stand a chance so why not stay home, watch porn and play video games.

That said there are quite a few people that have zero desire for kids and you certainly wouldn’t want to force it as they literally would make horrible parents. Others are resentful because of lifestyle cramp with kids. Others love a big family. All different drives in life so no one size fits all. (No pun intended)

The one comment where you suggested higher income taxes for single 35+. That’s a great way to get people to opt out of pushing themselves hard, see the lie flat movement. Work hard and get taxed heavy for someone else’s kids? Nah. People will opt out.

Finally you have no guarantee that your kids will want anything to do with you when you are old. Even in Taiwan nursing homes are becoming a big thing where they weren’t even a decade ago.

Men today are weaker, less fit, and less capable than past generations, and it shows. Lower testosterone, declining grip strength, reduced physical fitness, and an overall lack of resilience have created a generation that struggles with basic challenges their grandfathers took for granted.

I never had a problem getting a date in Australia or Taiwan. The issue isn’t that “women are too picky” or that “society is against men” it’s that too many men gave up on being competitive in the first place.

I have a little brother who has given up on dating. However… you should see him. He doesn’t shower everyday, he has oily hair because he doesn’t know how to shampoo and lastly he is grossly overweight. (Yes I am a little chubby post marriage… but nothing compares to my “little” brother who cannot get a date.)

You can either contribute by raising the next generation or by paying even more in taxes to support those who do. :slight_smile:

Let’s flip your argument: If you don’t have kids, there’s a “100% guarantee” that you’ll have no direct family looking after you. No kids, no grandkids, just you, alone, relying on strangers and government programs to keep you alive.

Or here’s a thought… you could have kids and not mistreat them, so they actually want to be a part of your life when you’re older. Parents who build strong, loving families don’t just get abandoned; they have children who care for them because of the bond they built.

He doesn’t know how to shampoo? What is there to not know?

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True!

And at the same time are people that wants to have kids but can’t find a partner who wants to have kids with them… And people who can’t afford it, really expensive to have kids nowadays

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All I see here are excuses, people prioritising their own short term comfort while expecting society to function without their contribution.

“I don’t want kids, I’d be a horrible parent.” Translation: “I don’t want responsibility.” Nobody starts as a perfect parent, people grow into the role. If past generations thought like this, none of us would be here.

“I want kids but can’t find a partner.” Maybe it’s time for some self-reflection. If someone really wants a family, they make choices that lead to it. Complaining about dating while ignoring the root of the problem doesn’t change reality.

“It’s too expensive to have kids.” Meanwhile, people drop thousands on iPhones, vacations, and subscriptions they barely use. If generations before us could raise families on far less, what’s really stopping people today?

At the end of the day, civilization survives because enough people take on the burden of raising the next generation. If too many people opt out, the system collapses, and ironically, the same people avoiding responsibility will be the first to complain when there aren’t enough workers to fund their pensions and take care of them in old age.

I don’t understand the logic of endless population growth. Is it really desirable for Taiwan to have a population of 30 million? Forty million - and growing?

My view is that Taiwan should determine what its ideal population size should be given its size and resources and then shoot for that steady state population size.

I think 15 million would be about right for Taiwan in order to ensure its inhabitants have the highest quality of life. Downsizing to that size and then holding there would be a struggle for a generation or two until a new generational equilibrium was reached but the struggle would only be temporary.

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In my opinion, if you can’t fund your own retirement by yourself and expect someone else to pay it for you, you got the wrong mindset.

I think some sort of tax scheme could help induce more people to have kids. I think there needs to be lots of exceptions and rules around it. A flat age doesn’t make much sense.

Making housing easier to buy by lowering interest rates and reducing down payments is not the solution. In Taiwan, prices need to come down. Period.

I think $7k scaled with inflation would be an ok starting point as long as 100% daycare for all children is covered. Daycare is the expensive part as you know.

You need to build muscle, go to the gym, play sports, and eat healthy to reduce the chances of health issues. I love all those things, so I’ll do what I can to keep health issues from happening. I’ll pay a SEA person a decent or even better than decent wage with the money I saved for retirement. Hell I’ll even pay a premium for healthcare in retirement as long as I can save for it.

Why not let people make their own decisions? Me and my wife wanted kids so we had kids, and if anybody says that is wrong then I tell them go and F themselves. And if others decide to not have kids they should be allowed to do that without anybody telling them it is wrong.

You talk about elder care, I think you don’t realize all the work that is ongoing for making elder care to become automated, like a factory but handling old people. In 30-50 years time we will see elder care business with 200 old people handled by 5 care takers, all menial tasks handled by robots. Will it be great for the elderly? Maybe not perfect, but the business case will work fine when the cost for care personal goes up as fewer people to do those jobs available in the market

No this really has become an issue. Not sure if its dating apps or promiscuity being more of an accepted thing or what which has caused it, but women’s standards have gone up. It’s a thing.

At least in the west, I have no idea if that’s a thing here I still see the same drips as usual getting women out of their league here. One of my gfs friends is smoking hot and her bf is one of the biggest drips I have ever seen. Spoilt, clueless. But oh his family probably have money or something ( I really don’t know).

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Wouldn’t this technology also make possible for robots to take care of people’s sexual and mental needs without having to commit to a relationship? That would further reduce any desire for a traditional family with kids for many people.

How would the government be able to change that situation of barely any new babies?
Artificial womb factories mixing up citizens mandatory DNA probes, raised by robots? Clone citizens of the Republic of China!

That goes a bit into SciFi, but we see some of those effects today already. See Japanese Hikikomori.

That’s the huge risk. You know the old joke/serious issue regarding Star Trek and it’s HoloDeck? That when that is invented for society, people will enter and never leave… starve to death… The end of humanity…

However honestly I still believe we will have kids in the future, let’s not forget that number of kids have been going down, but there will always be people who wants kids. And already now all countries getting closer to super aged society or have already entered it, are doing what they can to slow down the trend with a hope to reverse it. Free kindergarten, free schooling, labor laws protecting women who are pregnant, support of low income families etc. etc.

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Looks like Keelung is the place to meet the singles! :wink:Keelung Taiwan’s ‘loneliest’ city, ministry data show - Taipei Times

Because it’s a moldy, rain-splattered city.

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I’ve just come across a new initiative where overseas students are being offered free intensive Chinese lessons if they are considering staying in Taiwan after graduation.

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Used to be. Now it has a few buildings with colouful paint. Now its a tourist destination !

There are often many such schemes. This one could be great and i wished i had it when i was a master student here.
The scholarship i came here with offered me 6k ntd per month and free tution for all my studies but i had to work atleast 2 years after graduation

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Taiwan’s politicians tackled the problem and now there is a baby boom!

/jk same old

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The birth rate’s less than half the death rate.

Wow!

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