# Taiwan’s Identity: Time to Drop Mandarin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Taiwan Politics\ **Created:** [December 6, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936 "2024-12-06T16:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brianjones](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@Brianjones](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Brianjones)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 4:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/41 "2024-12-07T04:47:55Z")
> [@RickRooney](#): > > Sure but the attitude of ‘now you must learn Taiwanese to please us’ has just put me off the whole language to be honest. Yeah it’s very annoying. Did you get luo ma sui su quoted to you ? Do as the romans do …I hate that ---
**Author:** ![RickRooney](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@RickRooney](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/RickRooney)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 4:52am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/42 "2024-12-07T04:52:31Z")
Never been given that one. I just get constantly lectured that i need to learn Chinese (And if its a good day where they have nothing to critique about my Chinese then I get told i need to learn Taiwanese.) My gfs dad refers to me being Taiwanese which is nice and all but I’m not and never will be. ---
**Author:** ![Icon](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/icon/32/189245_2.png) [@Icon](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Icon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/43 "2024-12-07T04:58:15Z")
Hartzell tried the legal approach for decoupling. And switching to English would be, as stated, problematic. Getting rid of Mandarin is like getting rid of the ROC. It ain’t happening. Not because most are in favor but rather because of the intricacies. It is rather well embedded and disposing of it would harm the host. Worth it? Has to be further analyzed. Holo needs to be further taught and strengthened. There is still a lot of active opposition to that. ---
**Author:** ![Whatevah](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/w/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Whatevah](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Whatevah)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/44 "2024-12-07T05:08:32Z")
> [@Icon](#): > > Hartzell tried the legal approach for decoupling. And switching to English would be, as stated, problematic. It’s futile, English has passed the threshold. We are living during a time of phase-change. EU kept bitching about English being too dominant when UK was part of the EU. What happened after Brexit? Lol. It’s happening to all sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![afterspivak](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@afterspivak](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/afterspivak)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 5:48am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/45 "2024-12-07T05:48:09Z")
> [@tommy525](#): > > Taiwanese is just hokkien from fujian province spoken by a Chinese people brought over to the island It’s more than that. It took on some Siriya vocabulary as well as some Japanese loan words which are not used in Minnan over in Fujian. Guy ---
**Author:** ![bingobango](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/bingobango/32/227979_2.png) [@bingobango](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bingobango)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/46 "2024-12-07T06:03:03Z")
What a ridiculous notion. Topic just seems like next-level cope for not learning Mandarin at even a semi-functional level after being in Taiwan for a long time :2cents: :2cents: ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:06am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/47 "2024-12-07T06:06:16Z")
Agree mandarin is much nicer sounding than Taiwanese which is as annoying as Cantonese ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:14am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/48 "2024-12-07T06:14:54Z")
Interesting sidenote that I have noticed is that Anglo-Saxon’s when they learn, Mandarin tend to have a slight accent where as the few Anglo-Saxons that have learned Taiwanese seem to have mastered the accent a whole lot better leading me to think that Taiwanese is more achievable in terms of being able to speak it without a noticeable trace of a non-Taiwanese accent while mandarin it doesnt seem to be the case ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:24am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/49 "2024-12-07T06:24:18Z")
> [@tommy525](#): > > Interesting sidenote that I have noticed is that Anglo-Saxon’s when they learn, Mandarin tend to have a slight accent where as the few Anglo-Saxons that have learned Taiwanese seem to have mastered the accent a whole lot better leading me to think that Taiwanese is more achievable in terms of being able to speak it without a noticeable trace of a non-Taiwanese accent while mandarin it doesnt seem to be the case How do you identify Anglo Saxons, from Celts, Picts, Slavs etc ? I’m just watching a reenactment of Anglo Saxons having a battle with the Norsemen. I do actually prefer that term “Anglo Saxon” to "Caucasian ,？I have never heard a police radio call saying suspect late twenties tall wearing jeans and Anglo-Saxon. Maybe I need to learn Ancient English again or would that be Saxon? ---
**Author:** ![MalcolmReynolds](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/malcolmreynolds/32/258535_2.png) [@MalcolmReynolds](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/MalcolmReynolds)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:31am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/50 "2024-12-07T06:31:31Z")
> [@tommy525](#): > > The real Taiwanese are the aboriginal languages of Taiwan > > Those are the real Taiwanese Exactly. All other languages or dialects are from other places. It would be incorrect to characterize Hokey Pokey dialect as “Taiwanese”. It’s just a Chinese dialect from China. Why can’t Hakka be characterized as “Taiwanese”? Because there are more immigrants from Fujian where Hokey Pokey came from? That doesn’t seem fair for Hakka speakers. Why should Fujian immigrants get any type of honor of having their dialect referred to as Taiwanese? What language to they speak in America? American? Nope, English. What language do they speak in Mexico? Mexican? Nope, Spanish. The only real Taiwanese languages are the ones that originated here on this rock and @tommy525 would be correct in saying that the aboriginal languages are the only true Taiwanese languages. Anything else are just languages of colonizers. ---
**Author:** ![Quesito](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Quesito](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Quesito)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:42am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/51 "2024-12-07T06:42:19Z")
> [@MalcolmReynolds](#): > > What language do they speak in Mexico? Mexican? Nope, Spanish. Well, in reality they speak castellano. Otherwise is like calling mandarin just Chinese. Spain have many languages ---
**Author:** ![Celeborn](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/celeborn/32/26102_2.png) [@Celeborn](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Celeborn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/52 "2024-12-07T06:47:21Z")
> [@Brianjones](#): > > If I was you I’d learn some more stock pharases will do wonders for you What are the 20 most useful stock phrases we should learn/memorize in Taiyu? | **In Peh-ōe-jī** | **English Translation** | | --- | --- | | Bô-bûn-uī-á ê | No problem / Everyday is a good day | | Bô-kám-iāu | No problem / No worries | | Bô-ê-thang | Impossible | | Bē-tio̍h | That’s not correct / That’s wrong | | Chhiū-hān-sik | It’s up to you / You decide | | Chia̍h-pá bē? | Have you eaten? | | Goân-táu-tì | Take care | | Gán-ni kuánn | Like this / This way | | Hó-chia̍h | Delicious | | Khah ūn-chiâⁿ | Take it easy / Be careful | | Kám-sià | Thank you | | Pài-se | Excuse me / Sorry / Embarrassed | | Siám-mi̍h lō? | What’s up? / What’s going on? | | Tio̍h-thiaⁿ | Got it / Understood | | Tio̍h-ti̍t | Correct / Exactly | | Tsuí-to̍h-siá | Where is the toilet? | | Tán-tán-téng | Wait a moment / Hold on | | Tī-thô | Where? | | Wa gán-li kóng | I am telling you (emphatically) | | Wa thia̍h-bô | I didn’t hear / I didn’t understand | | Wa̍h-pò | Help! | ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/53 "2024-12-07T06:47:33Z")
The Chinese from Fijian weren’t really colonizers more like indentured slaves brought over by the Dutch 😾 ---
**Author:** ![afterspivak](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@afterspivak](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/afterspivak)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:50am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/54 "2024-12-07T06:50:00Z")
> [@tommy525](#): > > The Chinese from Fijian weren’t really colonizers more like indentured slaves brought over by the Dutch They were part of a settler colonial project, not unlike Europeans in Australia and Aotearoa / NZ and the colonies in North America—taking other peoples’ lands and displacing those peoples from their homes. Guy ---
**Author:** ![Kalle](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kalle](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Kalle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 6:50am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/55 "2024-12-07T06:50:31Z")
Forcing people to forget their Mandarin many consider their mother language will never work Encourage more usage of Taiwanese language is a better path than forbidding one of the current languages used ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 7:00am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/56 "2024-12-07T07:00:02Z")
Actually, if you just learned about 20 or 30 commonly used phrases in Taiwanese, it would be helpful and it could make you much more popular in Taiwan in southern time or eastern or central Taiwan maybe not so much in Taipei, which is largely a mandarin speaking place [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/7CW4K04ZMls/maxresdefault.jpg "Taiwanese phrases 1") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CW4K04ZMls) My current cats only understand English The cats I had in Taiwan understood mandarin and Taiwanese and English ---
**Author:** ![Celeborn](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/celeborn/32/26102_2.png) [@Celeborn](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Celeborn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 7:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/57 "2024-12-07T07:23:48Z")
> [@tommy525](#): > > if you just learned about 20 or 30 commonly used phrases in Taiwanese What are your 30 most commonly used phrases? | **In Peh-ōe-jī** | **English Translation** | | --- | --- | | Pài-se | Excuse me / Sorry / Embarrassed | | Kám-sià | Thank you | | Bô-kám-iāu | No problem / No worries | | Wa thia̍h-bô | I didn’t hear / I didn’t understand | | Chia̍h-pá bē? | Have you eaten? | | Hó-chia̍h | Delicious | | Siám-mi̍h lō? | What’s up? / What’s going on? | | Bô-ê-thang | Impossible | | Tio̍h-ti̍t | Correct / Exactly | | Tī-thô | Where? | | Tio̍h-thiaⁿ | Got it / Understood | | Chhiū-hān-sik | It’s up to you / You decide | | Tsuí-to̍h-siá | Where is the toilet? | | Wa̍h-pò | Help! | | Tán-tán-téng | Wait a moment / Hold on | | Gán-ni kuánn | Like this / This way | | Khah ūn-chiâⁿ | Take it easy / Be careful | | I lâi lāu-buē | He/She is coming soon | | Sió-kóng m̄-tio̍h | What you said is incorrect | | Ū-siánn-mih? | What’s the matter? / What’s wrong? | | Bô-tiâu-kóng | It doesn’t make sense | | Hó-bô? | Are you okay? | | Ló͘-tek lâi! | Come here! | | Khah-chhià | Be quicker | | Bô-bûn-uī-á ê | No problem / Everyday is a good day | | Ū-thang | It’s possible | | Ū-tiâu | That’s correct / Makes sense | | M̄-hó | Not good / Bad | | Siá | Write (imperative: as in “Write it!”) | | Hó-bī | Lucky / Fortunate | ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 7:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/58 "2024-12-07T07:51:30Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/H8fvOPTMTxI/maxresdefault.jpg "December 6, 2024") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8fvOPTMTxI) ---
**Author:** ![tommy525](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tommy525/32/272487_2.png) [@tommy525](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tommy525)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 7:52am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/59 "2024-12-07T07:52:09Z")
ok im going to say those phrases in taiwanese on this youtube clip dont know how else to post a voice memo. ---
**Author:** ![Low-Speed-Rail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@Low-Speed-Rail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Low-Speed-Rail)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 8:02am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936/60 "2024-12-07T08:02:07Z")
No I think the term “dialect” is an awful translation of 方言. And “topolect” is just making it worse. It’s literalism. A certain chinese ethnocentrism is baked into the language, so “方” should be taken to mean “a chinese region”. And in modern idiomatic English we don’t have a distinction between “a language that’s just spoken” and “a literary language”. We expect all languages can and should be written. So I say the idiomatic english translation is “language spoken in a region of the chinese speaking world”, or “chinese language”. NOT dialect. But my chinese is not the best, would be happy to hear a counter argument. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936.md?page=2) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-s-identity-time-to-drop-mandarin/246936.md?page=4)