theaustralian.news.com.au/co … 03,00.html
I think our friends in Austraila has the right idea. This is obviously an election year ploy by Bush to shore up local support with huge pork barrel legislations for these arms deal.
ROC is paying a premium for substandard goods.
Once agian ROC is using its money unwisely for questionable support from the USA.
the taiwanese troops can’t even keep humvees operational. just imagine how they’ll fare with the aegis. not a system for conscript troops.
it is 25 billion is aussieland, 18 billion US. feel better? i just saved you 7 billion dollars. don’t spend it all in one place.
Our substandard is better than their substandard. 
If the problem of Taiwan buying weapons is to be sloved, then I would suggest the following:
PRC removes all missiles pointed at Taiwan.
PRC declares Fujian a demilitarized zone, and allows ROC inspections.
PRC declares that force of arms will never be used against Taiwan.
Then, Taiwan would not have to buy top-modern PAC 3’s, some of the most powerful anti-aircraft destroyers in the world, and brand-new anti-supbmarine planes.
As far as I know, the prices us has been given are relatively reasonable. Moreover, we don’t know the full story, therefore it’s hard to say if they are overpriced or not, a few PFP legislators are not a credible source.
Yeah well we all know how successful the US army is at fighting people. Could the ROC do any worse ?
Why doesn’t the ROC just buy some nukes ? There must be some to be had from somewhere for good money…
A Taiwanese friend of mine was saying what big news it is. The US is blackmailing the ROC given their “predicament”. Yeah, lots of military $ and over $100 Bil of ROC money invested in the PRC. :bravo:
In a recent newspaper article, it quoted some Pentagon report saying that the ROC can fire missiles into the dams on the Yangtze River which would kill about 10 Mil people and wipe out 1/3 of Shanghai. This report got the PRC royally pissed off and started screaming how it would be worse than 9/11 and the ROC was backtracking, claiming they had not considered it as part of their plan and it was all US blathering
The war of words is pretty funny.
You can pay the money, or you can give up the ghost that October 25, 1945, was “Taiwan Retrocession Day” . . . . . and recognize the fact that the Republic of China no longer exists. Then you can accept United States administrative authority over Taiwan based on the post WWII treaties, and the USA will take care of Taiwan’s defensive needs directly.
It is so simple!! The Taiwanese people don’t have to put up with this blackmail, if they would just face reality . . . . .
If the U.S. was so concerned about Taiwan’s freedom and defending democracy, they should give away the weapons for free or at least heavily subsidized. However they are not, the price being charged is far higher than normal because the U.S. defense contractors are greedy and can get away with it. No other nation will sell Taiwan weapons because of Beijing pressure.
If you think it is simply the PFP/KMT faction who are upset, think again. Plenty of the DPP members are leary of the deal and feel that they are getting gouged. Which is why some have went to the U.S. to actually see the weapons first hand. Even the pro-green separatist Taipei Times have come out critical of the deal. It was a shock to see something in their editorials which are usually(always) nothing more than separatist rant fests. You can read for yourself here. taipeitimes.com/News/edit/ar … 2003176455
[quote=“Kairos”]You can pay the money, or you can give up the ghost that October 25, 1945, was “Taiwan Retrocession Day” . . . . . and recognize the fact that the Republic of China no longer exists. Then you can accept United States administrative authority over Taiwan based on the post WWII treaties, and the USA will take care of Taiwan’s defensive needs directly.
It is so simple!! The Taiwanese people don’t have to put up with this blackmail, if they would just face reality . . . . .[/quote]
Now if the PRC would institute a nationalization of Taiwan business interests, Taiwan can crawl on their knees to fly the Red and Yellow Stars 
It’s simple, do a poll based on Churchill’s “We shall fight on the beaches”. Look, if the TI folks really are into independence, then they should know that they’ll have to force the PRC to choke on their own blood when they invade the island. Anything short of that, then it’s really “STFU” and be good little PRC’ers and learn the Three Represents
I don’t have to read it for myself there . . . . (but thanks for the suggestion . . . . . ), and I don’t think you are getting my point.
Taiwan can still claim to be under USA administrative authority based on the post WWII treaties. That means that the USA must provide for Taiwan’s defensive needs directly . . . . in other words the Department of Defense would handle all the details. Taiwan would not have to pay a dime, any more than the US Virgin Islands pays for her “national defense” needs.
But . . . . . Taiwanese officialdom has to bring this matter to the attention of the USA, otherwise obviously the US’s defense contractors are quite content to continue playing this game . . . . .
Have you read any books on “governments-in-exile”? It is a fact that they are just foreign affairs’ tools of their supporting governments . . . . . . so, it is easy to see that the government in exile of Republic of China on Taiwan is also just being used as a foreign affairs tool of the USA . . . . . . but at the present time the Taiwanese continue to point to various actions of the USA and concluding that " . . . . our relations with the USA are improving" . . . etc., etc.
What a joke.
The United States’ support for Taiwan is a game . . . . . and no one in Taiwan (it seems) understands how the game is being played.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
[quote=“cmdjing”]If the U.S. was so concerned about Taiwan’s freedom and defending democracy, they should give away the weapons for free or at least heavily subsidized. However they are not, the price being charged is far higher than normal because the U.S. defense contractors are greedy and can get away with it. No other nation will sell Taiwan weapons because of Beijing pressure.
If you think it is simply the PFP/KMT faction who are upset, think again. Plenty of the DPP members are leary of the deal and feel that they are getting gouged. Which is why some have went to the U.S. to actually see the weapons first hand. Even the pro-green separatist Taipei Times have come out critical of the deal. It was a shock to see something in their editorials which are usually(always) nothing more than separatist rant fests. You can read for yourself here. taipeitimes.com/News/edit/ar … 2003176455[/quote]
Freedom and democracy has a price tag! Don’t let good ol’ free market enterprise interfere
There’s enough black market arms dealing out there that I’m pretty sure the ROC can get away with that for most of their needs. Heck, the US is pretty much charging them double already. With friends like that, who needs enemies 
!
cmdjing, since you describe this particular weapons purchase as far higher than normal, would you please suggest a fair price for the package? $1 billion us? $5 billion us? $10 billion us?
let’s rank it this way:
1.) extremely concerned about taiwan and democracy - give free weapons or sell them really really cheap
2.) concerned about taiwan and democracy - sell weapons at a normal price
3.) no concern about taiwan or democracy - refuse to sell taiwan weapons and tell taiwan that even asking to buy weapons destabilizes the region
so according to your criteria, no country in the world is extremely concerned about taiwan and democracy, the us is only normally concerned, and every other country in the world doesn’t care at all about taiwan.
lol. yes, blackmarket submarines and anti-submarine aircraft. i hear you can pick up an aircraft carrier in certain markets in kabul if you know the right people, too. 
ok, so you’re saying the arms package should only cost $9 billion us. please tell us how you came to that number. thanks.
oh, and these are the submarines that the us wanted taiwan to buy from germany since the us doesn’t build non-nuclear subs anymore. but the germans refused to make them for taiwan for fear of angering china. of course now germany is one of the countries pushing the eu to let it sell weapons to china. funny how that works.
lol. yes, blackmarket submarines and anti-submarine aircraft. I hear you can pick up an aircraft carrier in certain markets in kabul if you know the right people, too.
ok, so you’re saying the arms package should only cost $9 billion us. please tell us how you came to that number. thanks.[/quote]
I didn’t say such a thing.
However, what the Taiwanese papers have been screaming about is the price tag of individual items. They know what and how much the US sells to the S. Koreans. In turn, those very same items are about 2x more than what the S. Koreans bought it for. Seems fishy to the Taiwanese. Would seem fishy to me too.
As for alternative arms, there are the Russians. Same place the PRC buys from. For the really cool stuff, unfortunately, the Taiwanese gov’t would have to bite the bullet and buy at whatever price the US says it costs. But as someone else mentioned, would you really want to entrust such hi-tech stuff to the ROC military?
cmdjing, since you describe this particular weapons purchase as far higher than normal, would you please suggest a fair price for the package? $1 billion us? $5 billion us? $10 billion us?
let’s rank it this way:
1.) extremely concerned about taiwan and democracy - give free weapons or sell them really really cheap
2.) concerned about taiwan and democracy - sell weapons at a normal price
3.) no concern about taiwan or democracy - refuse to sell taiwan weapons and tell taiwan that even asking to buy weapons destabilizes the region
so according to your criteria, no country in the world is extremely concerned about taiwan and democracy, the us is only normally concerned, and every other country in the world doesn’t care at all about taiwan.[/quote]
you are mission option number 4. No concern about Taiwan and its democracy, more concerned with containing any possible China threat. Sells weapons to Taiwan at inflated cost because they know Taiwan has no other choice.
p.s. If you think the arms package is normally valued, why would the pro-green separatist camp complain about it then when they have been itching to buy more weapons?
Could it be the tax revenue in Taiwan have been down under the stewardship of the DPP administration for the past 4 years.
Here is a new dimension to the problem. Fresh off the ABC grapevine it seems members of ROC legislature are already in the USA inspecting the equipment up for sale.
taiwanunity.com/index.php?showtopic=301
Calendestine 16 year-old listens in at super secret location in El-paso, TX as ROC legislature and advisors discuss their findings.
Man behind the curtain revealed.
Woman behind the curtain revealed
Future President of Taiwan getting a rare photo op.
I didn’t say such a thing.
[/quote]
yes you did.