Taiwan takes WBSC U12 Baseball Championship

Beat Japan 4-0 for the title
https://u12bwc.wbsc.org/en/2019/news/chinese-taipei-wins-wbsc-u-12-baseball-world-cup-before-sell-out-crowd-of-8000
I was hoping Korea would take the bronze from Cuba so we could have a medal sweep by the former Japanese empire. Can’t have everything, I guess.

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Tw play the best baseball in the world up thru the jr hs level. Then they hit the wall…

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Yup

That’s slowly changing. It all depends on the coaches. If the coaches are one of those old guards who believe in the traditional Japanese coaching style they received as kids, then the players are going to be pretty broken by the time they turn 20.

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True…There’s a couple HS at the top that could compete with any in the world and their pitching is elite for the HS level.

By HS JP has Taiwan beat solely due to popularion alone (more schools) and TW start running into the limits of their frames by that age. I’ve never understood why but the pitching is so much more advanced than their hitting once they reach HS and after.

Coaching in Tw has evolved quite a bit. There are some structural parts of the setup in HS that also hold their development back some but those wont change…

What do you think the reason for this is?

Smaller overall body size compared to US and Latin AM kids limits HR potential,

US and Latin players are still growing at 17 18 most TW players hit physical maturity at an earlier age and they are what they are by HS age

Tw hitters too often learn to slap hit and their swings lose impact, in general their swings have too many moving parts instead of short direct swings

Hitters tend to open up early in their swings and prefer contact with a flat swing rather than a swing with a launch angle that will give them extra base hit power

Too much focus on repetition, drills and overcoaching in general so they play tight and fear making mistakes instead of letting loose. Not a lot of rhythm.

Plus in HS the top tier teams hoard all the top talent so the best 3 or 4 programs will have 60 to 80 kids and some never see games, while smaller schools only have leftover players not recruited by powerhouse schools.

That said its still strange how elite TW arms are but the hitting hasn’t caught up.

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I was guessing that it was the ‘hoarding’ element was making it appear they were more advanced than they really were in that in international competitions, Taiwanese teams are essentially national all-star teams whereas they play teams from other countries that are from a single community or, in the case they play real all-star teams, play teams that have been recently assembled and haven’t played together for long (though this likely wouldn’t be as much of an issue in baseball as in other sports).

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Most of the best kids in TW end up on national team rosters. They’re mostly composed of the winners of major tourneys but the coaches can choose kids from other schools at their own discretion.

In general tw jr hs kids play sick defense relative to other kids at the same age, routine double plays. They’re really advanced.

The jr hs teams are solely by region so those are the best tourneys. If you’re ever able to make it to hualien or taitung for a jr hs tourney it’s the best ball in the country and the heart or their baseball culture.

What about in other countries? Are they comprised of all-star teams in the same manner?

If you have dates for a tournament, post it here or send it my way - I would be interested in heading over and seeing it myself.

Not sure on Japan it varies. There are hundreds of baseball schools there. Korean teams have kids from all over, they’re the opposite of TW (they can mash, pitching is lesser).

Otani came through one year if I recall.

I’ll double check the dates of one tourney in Hualien that’s epic and send you…I think it’s in sep. But I’ll look…

You’re thinking of the Little League World Series which uses local teams limited to populations of a few hundred thousand. This tournament uses national all-star teams.

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You’re right. I played in amateur leagues here and I’m the only one who can hit with a launch angle.

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I don’t follow baseball and Little League rule changes, resulting in Taiwan no longer being dominant is indeed what I was thinking of.

Slappy swings, bailing, putting the ball on the ground make sense if you’re small, left handed, and can get up the line 4.2 or better to create infield hits since it gets hitters in a position to run quicker out of the box…plus puts pressure on bad defensive teams that are error prone etc. Every JP 1/2 at the top of their lineup has that…the approach makes sense for hitters with small frames that won’t hit for much power, but if they don’t have the speed to go with it then it just creates ineffective singles hitters.

Add pitchers that nibble in the strike zone and managers trying to out tactic each other and it’s a recipe for slow 3 1/2 hour games. I knew one dude that said Ichiro was the worst thing that ever happened to TW baseball because everyone started imitating him instead of trying to hit the ball in the outfield. I tend to agree with him.

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I agree with everything you said.

I hit right handed, although I can actually switch if I really wanted, I just prefer to hit right handed and do it well. Especially since I can hit for extra base hits right handed. From the left, im not really that fast and I can’t hit for power well. And I play 3rd base as a bigger guy so my role is to hit for extra bases.

What you say is a big issue and a major problem that plagues the national team. RISP, our players don’t swing big and take chances. They play basically safe trying to manufacture runs. They need to let loose sometimes. Especially when our rivals like japan are excellent fielding teams.

Pitching, i actually see alot of talent when they’re young. But I don’t think many guys continue to grow physically later on. And I think our pitching coaches must not be developing them well.

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Sure, they can deal. Their mix can even challenge ML caliber hitters in short series…I remember a Cuban national team came here and a short lefty threw a gem against a lineup that had ML hitters up and down, and that dude has like a 5 ERA in the CPBL.

Expecting change from the CPBL is a good way to end up disappointed in life.

IMO, the pitching here is quite crafty. I had a hard time hitting here with a lot of pitchers. In the US, i hit better arguable against better tangible talents. But I was always an average hitter so IDK. Although consistently average was something positive. Never got hot or cold. Probably because i’m a simple guy up at the plate.

I was a better defensive 3rd basement and had a really good arm.

I thought I could have been a pitcher. Some junior colleges wanted to look at me but I didn’t want to go to junior college so. I just never grew more from 15-16. Was stuck at 6’2.5 and threw at 82-84. Was also inconsistent with accuracy. I made it up with movement, i had a lot of movement.

I’ve been so frustrated with the baseball here though. Hopefully things change.

There needs to be a system where secondary players from the top schools can trickle down to the other ones so they can play. Everyone in the US wants playing time.

I’m not sure the strong pitching and weak batting image still applies here in Taiwan. Perhaps it is still somewhat true in high school, however many coaches at the college level have a much better understanding of new hitting strategies and as a result churned out many sluggers.

At the same time, there has been a pitching drain. It is very rare these days for Taiwanese high school pitchers to throw above 150kph. Back when Wang Chien-min, Kuo Hong-chih and Tsao chin-hui were in high school, there would be at least 3 or 4 such pitchers every year.

That too is slowly changing. So far this year, 3 high school pitchers pitched above 150kph. So perhaps baseball here will be at a higher level 5 years later.