Taiwaner or Taiwanese?

A local primary school English teacher here in Taiwan recently asked my company (EFL publishing) to help her solve a problem. It seems, one of her student’s parents complained that teaching the word “Taiwanese” is old fashioned, and that she should be teaching “Taiwaner” instead, to the students. Reason being, “-ese” is a derogatory suffix, denoting an inferior race.

Needless to say, the teacher was baffled by this accusation and found it difficult to respond. When the question was presented to me, I also found it difficult to answer, except to say that “Taiwaner” is not a word, and how could a suffix be classified as having such implications?

I remember the original email circulating about two years ago, but I didn’t think it was taken to heart so people would demand to be called Taiwaners, and deem the term Taiwanese out-of-date. See the Chinese text below:
I’m a Taiwaner

Personally, I do not understand why the Taiwanese have jumped on this idea, and not the Japanese, or Chinese, as well.

How do you think this teacher should respond to the parents?

That’s interesting. “Taiwaner” doesn’t sound English to me, but I’ve heard it before: as the way my Taiwanese friends who speak German and studied German in Taiwan describe themselves. In Germany, the only term I knew for taiwanren was “Taiwanesen”. I just checked some German monolingual dictionaries and encyclopedias, but couldn’t find any term for taiwanren. I always thought people might argue the German “Taiwanesen” was taken from the English “Taiwanese” instead of using the more logical (in my opinion) German “Taiwaner”. But then, the “derogatory” argument might fit for German as well.

Maybe I should go and ask my friends. However, I think that terms that long established don’t really need to and can not easily be changed. Nobody who talks about “Taiwanese” nowadays uses the suffix “-ese” to denote Taiwanese as inferior. But it’s an interesting point.

Iris

What a load of rubbish. Oh, the shame of being equated with such nasty, backwards people as the Portuguese. Oh, if only we could have the status of people like the Koreans!

“Taiwaner”, much like Tongyong Pinyin, is sure to do only one thing: Further degrade and embarrass Taiwan in the international community.

I think the teacher should slap these parents up the sides of their empty little heads.

It’s always amusing to have Taiwanese parents correct your English. There is no such word as “Taiwaner” just as there is no such word as “Englisher” (or “Engelishee” for that matter)

Perhaps the parent could be directed the the Collins / University of Birmingham Word Bank.

“There were no instances of your search pattern found in the corpora you selected”

And what about “Chinese” ?

Ah yes, but you see, the primary English teacher with the dilemma is herself Taiwanese (a Taiwaner?), so there is that added dimension… :?

She should just say to them, in English, “I’m Taiwanese, and so are you. These are the words, folks. Get over it.”

Chinese, Congonese, Gabonese, Japanese, Lebonese, Maltese, Nepalese, Portuguese, Senegalese, Sudanese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese.

Poagao,

How realistic is that?

As if a Taiwanese teacher would take such an attitude toward parents… :unamused:

Oh, you want realism? Ummm, since I haven’t really ever taught English, I’m not familiar with that environment. My guess is that she’s going to cave in and hope it blows over so she can start using real English words again (Results may vary according to personality).

I was just saying what she should do, not what she would do.

What Poagao said.

The parent is completely wrong. The -ese suffix does not now and has never connoted inferiority.

The word in English is Taiwanese. English teachers should teach English, not bullshit.

I can’t see anything wrong with using Taiwaner as a noun for a Taiwanese person although it does seem redundant. I’ve heard the term Britisher used to the same effect.

[quote]Britisher

[1820s: perhaps originating during or just after the American War of Independence (1776 - 83), to name a willing subject of the British king]. A person born in Britain. The term is both widely used and widely disowned. It was the first of the inclusive terms for people from Britain who may or may not be English: compare Brit, Briton. Typical of the unease surrounding such terms is a comment by Jawaharlal Nehru: ‘Individual Englishmen, educationists, orientalists, journalists, missionaries, and others played an important part in bringing western culture to India, and in their attempts to do so often came into conflict with their own Government… When I say Englishmen, I include, of course, people from the whole of Great Britain and Ireland, though I know this is improper and incorrect. But I dislike the word Britisher, and even that probably does not include the Irish. My apologies to the Irish, the Scots, and the Welsh’ (The Discovery of India, 1946). [Europe, Name]. T.McA.

The Oxford Companion to the English Language,

Well, actually, it’s ‘Hakkaner’. :wink:

How about a Wankanese? :laughing:

But you all know how sensitive Taiwanese can get if they feel they’re being looked down upon. I’ve heard them toss this whole issue around, weighing the pros and cons, and deciding that the person who started the ‘bullshit’ is correct in his/her assumptions. I think it comes with having somewhat of an inferiority complex.

Professor Geoffrey Sampson of the School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences at the University of Sussex explains the use of the ese suffix as not being tied to languages in particular; but rather as it merely being an adjectival suffix. He explains further that the Japanese language
is called “Japanese” because the adjective from Japan is Japanese –
“Japanese people”, “Japanese geography”, so also “Japanese language”, or
just “Japanese” in a context where it is obvious that it’s the language
being discussed.

He further explains why, in his opinion, nationality adjectives relating to
Asian nations in particular favour the -ese suffix. It may be because
of the historical sequence in which English-speaking people became
familiar with different distant parts of the world. He states, that for the nearby European nations, English formed adjectives very early, before
the English language was influenced by French, had words
like French, Dutch, Spanish; or in cases like Italian, we adapted the nation’s own self-description (italiano) to our language.

However, in cases like Japanese and Chinese, which came much later, but still early relative to smaller distant nations or for instance African names; English used mangled forms of the natives’ name for their country, and stuck on a suffix which happened to be popular at that particular period (he believes that the adjectives may have come to English under French influence, and that -ese is an Anglicization of the suffix which in modern French appears as -ois).

Further, he explains, we were more aware of the native languages’ own
structure, so for instance many nationality-adjectives relating to South
or Southwest Asia end in -i (e.g. Hindi), which is not an English or a
French suffix but the native suffix. Or, he continues, we use a general classical adjective suffix – the language of the Sioux is called Siouxan (I believe) not because -an is an adjective suffix from the native English rootstock, nor because it is how the Sioux describe themselves, but because it is a Latin adjective suffix which was natural for scholars to use.

Then, he suggests, if this kind of history has happened to throw up several -ese words for major nations in one particular world region, such as East Asia, that would have been influential when people were coining adjectives for smaller groups in the same region – i.e., “Madurese”, because it is in the same general region where people had become accustomed to the adjectives “Chinese”/“Japanese”.

The Professor concludes that if his suspicion is anywhere near correct, it means that the apparent regularity of use of the ese suffix with East Asian nations is more a question of the fluctuations of fashion or
habit than anything else.

linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/a … 02797.html

I’m sure the Prof is onto something. There’s also the problem of countries going through name and territorial changes which made earlier ‘specialist’ adjectives redundant. I also suspect that sometimes a name sticks simply because someone happened to make it first and it was taken up by the media even if it defied orthological and semantic conventions.

Surely, the West was more aware of Thailand before Cambodia and yet we have Siamese and Khmer. Then again would you want to say Khmerer or Khmerese!

What a load of nonsense. I loved the expalantion in the Chinese article Alien linked to, explaining why foreigners are called “阿多仔”:

[quote]是因為日本人看不起老外,稱他們 A dog,日文發音就變成阿多仔[/quote] :laughing:

In the same article, it is suggested that if people from New York are called New Yorkers, then Taiwanese should be called Taiwaners. Shouldn’t that be Taiwankers? That would surely get them the respect they crave.

Poagao and Cranky are absolutley right. This complaint does not deserve the dignity of an official response, other than an exaggerated rolling of one’s eyes. :unamused:

BTW, What do you want to bet this article/e-mail was started by Annie Li (李安妮), Li Denghui’s daughter. It has the same level of hysteria that she is becoming famous for. Anyone catch her “editiorial” in the Taipei Times the other day? I can’t believe they print the rubbish that she spews.

Cambodian and Khmer are not synonymous, just as Burma does not equal Myanmar. Siam is the name of the ancient kingdom, Thailand is modern. Not sure what your point is.

[quote=“Alien”]“Taiwanese” is old fashioned, and that she should be teaching “Taiwaner” instead, to the students. Reason being, “-ese” is a derogatory suffix, denoting an inferior race.

Personally, I do not understand why the Taiwanese have jumped on this idea, and not the Japanese, or Chinese, as well.
[/quote]

Think about it - “Japaner” might just about do, but “Chiner”, “Chinaer” etc is either going to be a mouthful or difficult to distinguish from the noun (impossible with a British accent).

The solution Taiwanadian, Japanadian and Chinadian. Half the Taiwanese seem to want to live in Canada anyway. And the implicit associations are far too bland and innocuous to offend anyone.

As a bit of an aside, the Filipinos had a similar identity crisis about 5 years ago, as I remember. Some politicians there thought that “ino” was lower class than the “eses” and “ians” of neighboring countries. The politicians in question proposed “philippinese” as the national identity. That story should make the Taiwanese feel better about themselves.