Taiwanese Electronics Debate

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Mod’s note:
The first 18 posts in this thread were split from the TW-Phili Fishing Boat Squabble Thread in the TP forum
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtop … 9&t=120307
-TGM, TP Mod.

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[quote="finley"]
[b]Taiwan's electronics industry has nothing interesting to offer the world.  Consumer crap that nobody needs?[/b]  Yes, well done.  Again, nothing to be particularly proud of.[/quote]


i COMPLETELY disagree. look at some of the electronics products you use and it's guaranteed that 95% of them are made by a taiwanese company or taiwanese backed company. if there was no taiwan much of the world's electronics products wouldnt exist. taiwanese have created some great consumer products. the problem is that you wouldnt know about it since they are mostly OEM companies sold to big foreign brand name companies. taiwanese are the backbone of the electronics industry. they're awesome at manufacturing top quality products; they just suck at branding and marketing their own products. (btw, the govt. really needs to help these mom n pop small business oem companies with their branding/marketing.) samsung doesnt make any products that are more interesting, but you wouldnt think so because they spend gazillions on marketing to make you think that their products are so great when they arent. everywhere i walk i see samsung billboards; surf online i see samsung banner ads; watch tv i see samsung commercials. the galaxy s4 is a cheap looking and feeling and outdated looking phone. htc has made some great phones; the htc one has gotten rave reviews around the world and i'm DEFINITELY going to get one - it's just frickin' BEAUTIFUL and performance is AWESOME!! [url]http://www.phonedog.com/rankings/smartphones/[/url]  and i want an asus transformer tablet too, which imo is better than the ipad. i still prefer a qwerty keyboard when i type; i hate typing on touch screen keyboards!

btw, speaking of branding, htc and asus need to change their names. htc is just not a sexy name and it always reminds of ibm, an antiquated pc company. asus is one letter from an obscene name (anus). this is what i mean when i say taiwanese really suck at branding. they cant even come up with cool sounding names like an apple even a samsung. at least acer sounds kinda cool!

Nonsense. With the exception of TSMC and UMC, which are true leaders in their field, Taiwanese electronics companies are about 10 years behind the rest of the world. Open up your fancy HTC phone and you will see components designed in Japan, Europe and the US; virtually nothing will be sourced locally, except possibly the PCB laminate and the LCD glass. If you could see it, you’d find 95% of the software was written by foreign coders, mostly unknown nobodies. Anyway, my point was that, regardless of the comparative level of technological innovation, very little of what Taiwan produces is anything more than future landfill. It adds nothing of lasting value to Civilisation.

The admen love people like you. You’ll buy anything they tell you that you need.

are u kidding me? a lot of electronic components are made by taiwanese companies. a lot of those european and japanese companies order their products from taiwanese oem companies or they collaborate with taiwanese companies. and HTC ONE is ONE FRICKIN BEAUTIFUL PHONE!!!

[quote=“finley”]

The admen love people like you. You’ll buy anything they tell you that you need.[/quote]

umm no i need a new smartphone and HTC ONE is considered the best smartphone on the market. i also need a tablet to show my design portfolio on during interviews and such and asus transformer is EXACTLY what i need since i prefer typing on a qwerty keyboard and not just a touchscreen tablet. i’ll be doing work on it and not just surfing the web. :sunglasses:

One company: TSMC. They develop semiconductor processes, often (as you said) in collaboration with foreign researchers, and IC designers around the world develop ICs around those processes, invariably using American software. TSMC are called a “foundry”, because they stamp out designs that other people create. They’re good at what they do, but they’re not the only wafer fab on the planet, and the high-tech stuff is mostly made in foundries in Europe or the US. There are no electronics companies in Taiwan that can compete on either price or functionality with foreign designs.

Well, I guess I can’t argue with that. I wish you and your phone every happiness together. :wink:

LOTS of taiwanese companies produce electronic components. and TSMC also designs their own chips and sells them to foreign companies. and HTC ONE is not only BEAUTIFUL but it beats out galaxy s4 and iphone 5 in performance and display too according to many tech reviews!!

Name one. One that doesn’t have a product noticably inferior to its foreign competitors.

They do, but nothing of any note. Commodity MOSFETs, mostly, and IP (building blocks for larger ICs). Anyway, as I said, TSMC are probably the single exception to the rule.

I used to own an HTC phone, the Desire. At the time I bought it, all the tech reviews said it was the best phone available, better than the then-current iPhone or anything by Samsung. In all honesty, it was a piece of crap, and my wife’s one year old iPhone outperformed it. I now have a Samsung s2 which is still fantastic to use. It’d take a lot to get me to buy HTC again no matter what the tech reviews say.

I used to own an HTC phone, the Desire. At the time I bought it, all the tech reviews said it was the best phone available, better than the then-current iPhone or anything by Samsung. In all honesty, it was a piece of crap, and my wife’s one year old iPhone outperformed it. I now have a Samsung s2 which is still fantastic to use. It’d take a lot to get me to buy HTC again no matter what the tech reviews say.[/quote]

well I bought an ipod that broke after 6 months of use. guess that means all apple products are pieces of crap. so what do you think of that?

I’m using an htc g2 right now. typing on it as we speak. I’ve had for three years now. dropped a billion times and it still works. so what do you think of that?

What do I think of that? I think you have an unhealthy obsession. :smiley:

[quote=“cfimages”]
I used to own an HTC phone, the Desire. At the time I bought it, all the tech reviews said it was the best phone available, better than the then-current iPhone or anything by Samsung. In all honesty, it was a piece of crap, and my wife’s one year old iPhone outperformed it. I now have a Samsung s2 which is still fantastic to use. It’d take a lot to get me to buy HTC again no matter what the tech reviews say.[/quote]

I still use my HTC Desire. The hardware is getting a little outdated now, specifically in the GPU department, but it’s 1GHz CPU is still pretty awesome even for today, and back then it was the best phone. You probably hate it because it only has 256 MB of internal NAND memory. It means you have trouble installing many apps, because the phone would run out of internal storage space. It is easily fixed by rooting the phone and mapping or mounting the /data/ directory to your SD card.

It is a versatile piece of hardware, I can run Android 4.3 on it, install any kind of apps I want. As I mentioned before, the real limit for this phone (and any phone from that era), is it doesn’t have the powerful integrated GPUs found in today’s Smartphone SoCs. Still, as long as I don’t download some 1GB app with intensive 3D rendering, I’m fine. Frankly, as long as it runs candy crush, allows me to use Google Hangout, get gmail, browse Forumosa, log on to justintv to watch streaming baseball games, I’m set.

By the way, I have little love for HTC since they declared that they are a Chinese company. I just love my Desire for the tech freedom (also, I think if a phone cost this much, it should last a lot longer).

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“cfimages”]
It is easily fixed by rooting the phone and mapping or mounting the /data/ directory to your SD card.

[/quote][/quote]

That’s what I ended up doing. I also had to install a custom ROM and got rid of all the HTC software, and got access to all the memory.

Yeah the HTC boss believes in One China, it’s true. I think they are trying to sell more phones in the Philippines.

But you know what, the latest HTC One is a thing of beauty with awesome specs. They really stepped up and cranked it out with that one.

There are other Taiwanese companies that make quality components like mobile cameras and touchscreens etc.

Since we apparently aren’t talking about the Philippines anymore (although I applaud headhoncho’s effort to make it tangentially relevant), let me butt in:

1: Taiwan makes some good products, especially components. It’s not glamorous, but a lot of those little parts needed to run your cars and computers are made or designed here.

2: So what if most Taiwanese companies make low-end electronics? Not everyone can be Apple, nor should they try to be. There’s clearly a demand for this niche product, and if Taiwanese companies are willing to supply that, good for them. That is, after all, how Sony and Samsung got their start.

that’s what i said before, that taiwanese companies makes a lot of products - whether they be entire products or the heart and guts of electronic products. many are tops in their field. you just dont hear about them as they’re usually small oem companies that sell to bigger well known foreign brand name companies. ever hear of COMPUTEX?? there’s a reason why it’s the second biggest computer fair in the world. i just dont understand why taiwanese businessmen dont put more effort into branding their products. they’re just satisfied being no-name oem companies. that strategy cant last forever especially with china and other asian countries on the rise. maybe taiwanese are just frugal, cheap, lazy, etc. as developing and marketing a brand can be very expensive and investment in r&d can be very expensive. but it’s definitely worth it at the end. there’s several successful taiwanese-americans who developed their own branded companies in the u.s. like jerry yang of yahoo and the ceo of vizio and the co-creator of youtube, among others. i’m too lazy to google all their names, but they’re out there. i read a ny times interview of the ceo of vizio and he said had he been raised and schooled in taiwan, he would not have been successful building his brand as the mindset is completely different there. taiwanese really have to change the way they teach their kids - think outside the box, be more vocal and think independently, not just rely on rote memorization like a robot. but there’s one thing that taiwanese are is that they are truly entrepreneurial and know how to make money, as cheap as they are!

regarding cher wang, i cant stand that lady!! she’s the one who said htc is a “chinese” company. and she came out during the last taiwanese election to endorse ma ying jeou. if i was a stockholder, i’d insist that she and the ceo peter chou resign. if your company dominated the u.s. smartphone market back in 2011 and drastically dropped to what it is now, you better resign!! if it was an american company they’d be forced out. htc and other taiwanese companies need to hire more foreign executives who know how to run a global company and market their products internationally not just locally. now, there’s all this negative news coming out about all these htc executives in the u.s. and some in asia quitting. not sure if it has to do with the failure of the facebook phone and they’ve been forced out, but i directly blame the top heads of the company. cher wang and peter chou need to go!! they screwed up big time last 2 years and lost huge market share to samsung and apple.

and on a side note, i dont understand why taiwanese companies are so reluctant to spend money on marketing. i barely see any ads and commercials for htc products, acer products, etc. yet i constantly see ads for samsung, lg, hyundai, kia, etc. it’s not enough to build great products. you gotta spread the word by marketing them!! and south korea’s been marketing their products to death!

also, taiwan govt. has been trying to develop the tourist industry and attract more international tourists. but i dont even see any ads and commercials for taiwan tourism or china/eva airlines. yet i see commercials for south korea tourism, asiana and korean airlines. same for thailand and singapore, japan, etc, on major u.s. channels like cnn and newspapers, magazines, websites, etc. are taiwanese just cheap or clueless or both? i have no idea!! but it cant be that hard to hire a big name american advertising/marketing firm to market your products or your country. you just need to write them the big fat checks and they’ll do all the work. so it must be that taiwanese are just frickin cheap! :unamused:

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]Since we apparently aren’t talking about the Philippines anymore (although I applaud headhoncho’s effort to make it tangentially relevant), let me butt in:

1: Taiwan makes some good products, especially components. It’s not glamorous, but a lot of those little parts needed to run your cars and computers are made or designed here.

2: So what if most Taiwanese companies make low-end electronics? Not everyone can be Apple, nor should they try to be. There’s clearly a demand for this niche product, and if Taiwanese companies are willing to supply that, good for them. That is, after all, how Sony and Samsung got their start.[/quote]

The original comment was about Taiwanese nationalism, and someone mentioned that the electronics industry (specifically components) is one thing they can be proud of. I no longer design with Taiwanese components because they’re shit. They’re also expensive compared to (say) American ones. Some Taiwanese manufacturers (they’re all fabless, of course - just design houses) haven’t updated their product range in 10 years. Even the low-end products are poor - we just had a problem with some locally-made connectors failing. The only reason such companies still have a market is because of misguided nationalism. Taiwan simply isn’t good at making electronics - components or assemblies. They’re just riding the wave from the 1990s, when it just happened to be their turn to be the world’s factory.

Going off on a tangent again, the reason most modern electronics break is (a) they’re designed to and (b) they’re so immensely complex it’s a surprise they work at all. (A) is the reason why I suggest being good at producing this stuff is not something to be proud of - even if you are good at it!

And getting back OT, Novaspes might have a point - were the Phils CG three sheets to the wind? How about the fishermen? Wonder if any of them were breathalysed on return? Would it have made any difference (it’s not illegal, AFAIK, to operate a boat while drunk)? Wouldn’t be the first time a crew went out sailing after a skinful.

Acer had an Italian CEO for a while. But he made the company end up looking a bit like Italy does.

Plain and simple, it’s short-sightedness. Same reason buildings across the country are so ugly, roads are too small for the amount of traffic they see, and the economy is overly reliant on China. If you ask me, the problem is rooted in national identity and propagandist education. When you’re raised being told that you’re only here temporarily and will soon be able to go back to your native homeland, you tend to care a little bit less about the long-run. Make it cheap, make it fast, get rich.

That is a great quote.

So is Taiwan basically screwed when 3D printers can be practically applied in mass manufacturing?