Taiwanese feel they aren't at home in the Olympics: survey

waiguopengyou · July 31, 2016, 7:31am

Could China and Taiwan compete together in 2012?

Yes, no reason why not, some people are too distrustful of China
Yes, if a satisfactory Taiwan autonomy agreement is reached first
It isn’t possible to know the situation four years from now
That could never happen on Taiwan’s terms
Taiwan’s identity is strong enough to resist the possibility
No way in hell - China would have to bomb us first

0 voters

An August 20th press release from research agency TNS Taiwan entitled “Most Taiwanese disagree Taiwan has home field advantage in the 2008 Beijing Olympics - A study of over 26,000 Internet users reveals that a majority of Taiwanese feel their athletes are playing away from home” says that “most Taiwanese do not feel their athletes are on home field competing in the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing… …68% of 26,435 internet users polled responded negatively to the question, “Do you feel Taiwan is on home field competing in the Beijing Olympic Games?” Only 13% responded positively, with 19% saying they didn’t know.”

The whole press release has been posted at asiafinest.com/forum/lofiver … 71514.html

One of the people responding to that post says “it is rather pity…but this is the result of a “Straits Wall” similar to Berlin Wall which separate a people… What to expect… Anyway I was thinking maybe next time China and Taiwan can join together in one delegation, like how NKorea and SKorea did it under a united flag and name… Something can be thought for China-Taiwan… I hope maybe next time, perhaps in 2012.”

Four years from now? China and Taiwan under a united flag? Unfounded nightmare or possibility?

hannes · July 31, 2016, 7:31am

Not impossible, but a lot has to happen before that happens.

Based on the “Jia You” cheers for Taiwanese athletes, I would think that the Taiwanese had home crowd support. That didn’t prevent them from sucking most of the time, though.

waiguopengyou · July 31, 2016, 7:31am

It seems most Taiwanese don’t feel their athletes are at home in China, whatever the reception. A parallel can be drawn to Canada, where independence-minded Quebecois, to whose sense of self-determination Canadians elsewhere wanting to embrace and support them are quite irrelevant. They cheer for French-Canadian hockey players competing for Canada in the Winter Olympics, but any gratification they enjoy from the success of their heroes stems not an iota from any glory they might bring Canada.

Sure, the Chinese can cheer “jia you” for Taiwanese athletes - but if the Taiwanese athletes did excel, would the citizens of Taiwan get good feelings from doing China proud? …I should think (and hope) not.

Edgar_Allen · July 31, 2016, 7:31am

Come on its just like Scotland. They want independence but we still cheer for them whenever they play sport…they just don’t cheer for us. Infact isn’t it EXACTLY like Scotland?

KingZog · July 31, 2016, 7:31am

Umm not really. A better comparison would be the UK and the Irish Free State post 1945 if the UK threatened to invade should de Valera declare de jure independence. Which they didn’t do. de Valera talked about Ireland being a Republic and the UK ignored him. He then passed an act in the Irish Parliament to implement this and after sulking for a year the UK recognized the new state.

Scotland is different because they UK managed to devolve power fast enough to head off a move to de jure independence. Also they didn’t send in the troops or even threaten to do so. So the net result is that most Scots probably consider themselves independent and most English people probably consider them part of the UK, hence the cheering paradox.

ac_dropout · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

They are in another province, so how in the world are they suppose to feel at home. Most WSR are not from the Beiping area.

goingstrong · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

Two different countries. Two different sets of people. No surprise of the survey.

Ohhh… I like straycat’s post.

Good point. I don’t know what China is thinking when it exacts authoritarian and exclusionist measures (missiles, WHO, UN, Anti-Annexation Law, the Olympic Torch, etc., etc.) in dealing with Taiwan. It’s like a parent saying “Come here right this instant or I’ll hit you even harder than I’m already going to hit you.” Taiwan is a democracy. It guarantees its people freedom to think as individuals, freedom to travel, etc., etc. The culture of Taiwan has enjoyed these freedoms for many, many years now, and there is no way in the world they’re going to respond favorably to the kind of treatment that the government of China gives them. The Chinese government, moreover, rationalizes that because the Chinese and the Taiwanese are basically ethnically the same, that the Taiwanese should just stop being so resistant and should accept unification. But that doesn’t make sense anymore in this day and age of the modern nation-state - and the Taiwanese know it! The modern nation state is based on shared values that do not consider any certain ethnicities to hold priority. I’ve been in both China and Taiwan often, and I’m sorry - the shared values of the Taiwanese definitely qualify them as an independent nation - which they already are, with the exception that they just haven’t declared independence. Despite all its Olympic loudness to the rest of the world, China is proving itself to be embarrassingly primitive. Demanding that Taiwan unify with a non-democratic state that has never governed them before? (The idea of ‘re-unification’ is silly, as the two states have never been unified, no matter what the Chicoms or the KMT might claim.) Threatening military action against Taiwan if it declares independence? Saying that Taiwan is on home turf in the Olympics even while the vast majority of Taiwan’s citizens clearly feel otherwise? All that is like saying “You are part of us whether you are or not.” It is so obvious that the Chinese government doesn’t even understand the democratic culture it’s trying to co-opt. It’s not even a case of ensuring Taiwan would get a fairer, more democratic deal than Hong Kong did (poor Hong Kong - those people were really cheated); it’s rather a matter of one nation having no right to invade another over their own claims of ethnic similarity. Incidentally, the last International Treaty concerning Taiwan gave Taiwan to the United States. Legally, Taiwan is more American than Chinese.

waiguopengyou · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

I think the Irish Free State only lasted from 1922-1937. Wasn’t it called the Republic of Ireland or something by the time Eamon de Valera became the world’s only head of state to offer condolences to the German people for the death of Adolf Hitler? What you’re probably referring to is the period involving the 1919 de facto Southern Ireland, the 1920 de jure Southern Ireland, and the Irish Free State that effectively replaced them after the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1922.

But you write if… did they really threaten to do so? And how was the sociopolitical environment for Irish Olympic athletes in that crazy decade after 1916? Sounds like turmoil far more complicated than for Taiwanese athletes today!

KingZog · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

I think the Irish Free State only lasted from 1922-1937. Wasn’t it called the Republic of Ireland or something by the time Eamon de Valera became the world’s only head of state to offer condolences to the German people for the death of Adolf Hitler? What you’re probably referring to is the period involving the 1919 de facto Southern Ireland, the 1920 de jure Southern Ireland, and the Irish Free State that effectively replaced them after the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1922.

But you write if… did they really threaten to do so? And how was the sociopolitical environment for Irish Olympic athletes in that crazy decade after 1916? Sounds like turmoil far more complicated than for Taiwanese athletes today![/quote]

Ireland wasn’t a republic until 1948, it was still technically part of the UK and the English King was head of state. But you’re right, it was called Ireland after 1937. So de Valera wasn’t an international recognized head of state when he sent condolences to Germany. You’re right in the implication that he was a nasty piece of work from what I’ve read.

Actually I think if the UK hadn’t of misruled Ireland so spectacularly in the past it would probably still be part of the UK but autonomous like Scotland is. Misrule aside, I think the UK’s handling of the Irish declaration of independence in 1949 was exemplary.

Essentially my argument is that Ireland pre 1948 was in a Taiwan like situation of de facto but not de jure independence.

waiguopengyou · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

“Essentially my argument is that Ireland pre 1948 was in a Taiwan like situation of de facto but not de jure independence.”

Right - with a twist of impending invasion

It seems to me that Hu Jintao claimed Taiwan to enjoy home advantage in a cover-up of decades of political failure. The Chinese press has been painting Taiwan as the bad boy for a long time. Diametrically opposed to Taiwan’s developments in human rights, democratization, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, etc., China’s been hanging in there with excessive curtailment of human rights, totalitarianism, censorship of the press and the Internet, etc. Add to that China’s way under-reported buildup of their military, particularly as it could be unleashed against Taiwan, and is it any wonder Taiwan’s citizens take Hu’s co-option of Taiwan’s athletes with a huge grain of salt? When it comes right down to it, the Chicoms have done everything they could possibly have done wrong were it ever their plan to endear Taiwan to the cause of unification. I see Hu’s embracing of Taiwan’s athletes as a grotesque gesture of denial.

Ah_Q · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

I think that once Taiwan and China join together in one olympics delegation, it will be the beginning of the end for Taiwan. In the case of North and South Korea there was and is a vast difference: there is not such a significant difference in performance at the olympics, and there is not such an obvious difference in global power (military or politically). Although South Korea enjoys international support, it’s not a situation with such a clear dominant party as there is in China vs. Taiwan.

Hence, the only way this would happen would be under the Chinese flag, and then Taiwan would add what, a handful of silver and bronze medals? To China’s tally of 100+ medals, half of which gold? North and South Korea both bring gold to the table, at least. It would be an enormous insult, and an implicit showing of Chinese power over Taiwan. If Taiwan competes independantly, at least they’re not competing with China directly.

ac_dropout · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

Why can’t the HK and Macau system be used. They have their own delegations to the event as well.

redandy · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

Sounds like a Chinese conspiracy to me. They’re still behind the U.S. in silver and bronzes and the 4 extra medals would make a difference. If they get Taiwan I’m sure they’ll rig a way to get baseball back in, that way they’ll have a pitcher who throws hard and accurate enough to take out the entire team with concussions (what’s the good of just throwing at one guy’s head?), thus giving them a good shot at a medal.

sjcma · July 31, 2016, 7:32am

Macau has never fielded a team to the Olympics. The Macau Olympic Committee is not part of the IOC and hence, is not qualified to send athletes.

ABC · July 31, 2016, 7:33am

Don’t you know that Taiwan seriously underperform in baseball during Olympics. Even China beat them this time.

goingstrong · July 31, 2016, 7:33am

^ And? So? There’s always the next Olympics. Who needs gold medals? The Olympics was made for competition but also for fun.

ludahai · July 31, 2016, 7:33am

Don’t you know that Taiwan seriously underperform in baseball during Olympics. Even China beat them this time.[/quote]

True, but then again, Taiwan still finished in fifth, which is the highest they would have realistically finished anyway given that South Korea went 8-0 and won the Gold.