Taiwanese payback?

Discussion Open Forum
#1

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/08/12/2003063285

Interesting article. If this is accurate, does Tony Blair honestly think his government can treat Taiwan like this and not have this kind of repercussion? What exactly is the supposed benefit of buying British products if in fact they won’t even allow Taiwan’s democratically elected leader to stopover on their island?

As critical as I can be of the executive branch of the US kowtowing to China, I am hoping that the British business community will not be so naive as to suggest this wouldn’t be a just action on the part of Taiwan.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

#2

When I started to read that story, I thought “Grow up, the best man won” But when I read about refusing a visa I thought “Serves you right”. Very happy to see the Brits are upset about it, And Tony Blair wrote a letter to Chen Shui-Bian, (which he must have sent to Beijing, right ? After all, he says Taiwan is part of China)
Smarmy git.

#3

[quote=“matthewh”]When I started to read that story, I thought “Grow up, the best man won” But when I read about refusing a visa I thought “Serves you right”. Very happy to see the Brits are upset about it, And Tony Blair wrote a letter to Chen Shui-Bian, (which he must have sent to Beijing, right ? After all, he says Taiwan is part of China)
Smarmy git.[/quote]

Yeah, screw the Brits. Who cares if they can offer a safer and cheaper engine to Taiwan taxpayers, who will eventually foot the bill and make up the majority of the passengers.

#4

Is it safer and cheaper ? I have no idea, I’m not a rocket scientist, or even a jet scientist. Was it political ? Who knows.

PS. I am a Brit, and Blair is still a smarmy git.

#5

My only point is that everyone is talking about the political aspect of the deal (which Taiwan official gets to travel where), but I haven’t seen anything about the actual quality of the goods that are being considered. We’re talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here and also about safety.

#6

I’m sure that the difference in quality and performance of the engines would be negligble. As for safety, I’d be more worried about the China Airlines maintenance crew’s safety performance than these two companies.

Anyways, why should Taiwan get consistently shafted because of the greater economic clout of China and do nothing about it? You don’t think that China plays the same game? Why else does everyone toe the “One China Policy” line? You’ve got to fight fire with fire. How else is Taiwan supposed to get recognition and support in the real world? Idealism only goes so far.

#7

if i recall correctly, the one china policy was actually created by the KMT. back in the day in the thrall of the red scare they put it forward. since they had still just freshly fled the mainland, it sounded like a good thing: no red blooded chinese citizen wanted to see the nation torn asunder as it had been done during the period of unequal treaties.

over time, the realities of the situation have changed. taiwan has renounced any intention of reclaiming the mainland. china has become more and more powerful. taiwan quit the united nations, and china took the upper hand and hasn’t looked back. most folks today think the “one china policy” is but one of those things china put forward and taiwan has to live around when in reality the exact opposite is true.

#8

Well done, Mr. President. You do have clout. You do have influence. When you get dissed, you do have an option. I wish Taiwan would stand up for itself more (in a civilized way, that is).

How would any of you act if an acquaintance dissed you? No reason to end the relationship, no reason to cry or scream. But you wouldn’t look so fondly on the person again for a while. :cry:

Making and/or breaking business deals over things like this is a measured and civilized reaction. You do business with people you trust.

No law (not even WTO regulations) forces Taiwan to buy anything from Europe. If Europe disses Taiwan, then Taiwan has every right to regard it as untrustworthy and cancel a deal.

Another note- I’m actually relieved to see the Taiwanese media handle this one modestly. Unlike the way they handled the story of the British ad firm which supposedly dissed Taiwan with that ‘send to Taiwan for service’-advert in the Underground.

#9

WarMonkey,
Are you fresh out the trees?
What kind of word is “diss”? Is this jungle English?
From the context I can guess that it is a lazy form of “show disrespect to.”
I’m from New Zealand, and I’ve never heard “diss” before. Is this common North American slang? If so, how long has it been around?
You’re making me feel old.

#10

[quote=“HakkaSonic”][quote=“matthewh”]When I started to read that story, I thought “Grow up, the best man won” But when I read about refusing a visa I thought “Serves you right”. Very happy to see the Brits are upset about it, And Tony Blair wrote a letter to Chen Shui-Bian, (which he must have sent to Beijing, right ? After all, he says Taiwan is part of China)
Smarmy git.[/quote]

Yeah, screw the Brits. Who cares if they can offer a safer and cheaper engine to Taiwan taxpayers, who will eventually foot the bill and make up the majority of the passengers.[/quote]
Uh . . . “safer and cheaper”?? Since when?

What, do you think that P&W deliberately makes engines that blow up and kill everyone in the plane?

Engines are chosen based on many considerations; safety isn’t one of them, because all of the manufacturers have to meet the same standard, which can basically be summarized as “zero problems, ever”.

#11

[quote=“almas john”]What kind of word is “diss”? Is this jungle English?
From the context I can guess that it is a lazy form of “show disrespect to.”
.[/quote]

John,

You have been here WAY too long… this is American slang and has been used in pop culture in the States for at least 5+ years cause I have been here for over 4 and I am familiar with it… plus, you know those folks from NZ aren’t speaking English anyway (just a quick stab at ya…). :slight_smile:

#12

Yes, Chen sure does have a lot of clout. He firmly let those Brits know that if he was not allowed a stopover in the UK, then there was no way in hell Taiwan was going to let itself be overcharged by millions of dollars for some Rolls Royce engines. (That’s assuming that this is what occured of course).

#13

Yes, remember that, your idealism will only go so far.

#14

Uh…make that 10+ years that diss has been in use. First read about it in a Time magazine article somewhere around 1988-1992.

#15

um, the article says it wa a business decision and had nothing to do with politics. Both the BTCO and government spokesman admit this. Are y’all telling me that you do not believe everything you read! or am I getting dissed here by the reporter and you amazingly insightful people.

But yeah, nice upper cut Chen.

Chou

#16

[quote=“chodofu”]um, the article says it wa a business decision and had nothing to do with politics. Both the BTCO and government spokesman admit this. Are y’all telling me that you do not believe everything you read! or am I getting dissed here by the reporter and you amazingly insightful people.

But yeah, nice upper cut Chen.

Chou[/quote]

That’s right, the decision wasn’t political at all and it won’t increase the prospects of having the seventh fleet sail by during the next presidential election should you-know-who misbehave. Damn, where is mine coffee.

#17

Rolls Royce have lost out big time. As these planes crash with monotonous regularity, the repeat orders would have been lucrative. But the USA and Taiwan have always had a cosy relationship, I would be very surprised if RR ever put an engine on a Taiwanese plane. I suspect Taiwan was trying to squeeze a concession out of the UK and when nothing was forthcoming, it returned to the original plan of using US engines.

#18

Hexuan, I suspect your suspections are right, although I don’t think they really lost out. I doubt if they had ever had much of a chance…
Now, supplying cars for the presidential fleet, that may be another matter.

#19

Smart move Pres. Chen, make them sit up and take stock.

#20

Yeah, that’s what the Brits are doing right now. It’s number two on the agenda:

  1. How to get out of this Iraq War mess
  2. Letting Chen make a stopover
  3. All that European Union stuff