Has she used “marketing match” yet? You know, they really haven’t arrived until they’ve used that one.
Oh, and thanks, Xpet. I started the second semester of my MBA program today. :mickey:
Oh, I like that one. I even felt guilty when I sat in my Taiwanese GF’s family car with mom at the wheel, nephew and niece (ages 3 and 5) bouncing in the front seat and me, the stupid laowai, sitting in the backseat with a seatbelt on. Guilt from insulting mom, guilt from not being persuasive enough to convince my GF and her family that the cute little ones in the front should at least sit in the back, and guilt from knowing that if we get hit, I am the most likely to survive.
Despite all the guilt, the seatbelt stayed on. I refuse to appease their cultural gormlessness when it comes to my health. 
Stragbasher, that was an EXCELLENT post.
You managed to point out the obvious gormlessness of those lacking gorm in Taiwan, and held the same types in our home countries accountable for their own ability to cheat Darwin, without sounding too “we are the world” about it.
Beware the buffons.
I had an epiphany one day driving down the number 3 from Taoyuan. At once I realized that people here drive (and walk and plan) as if they are the only ones in the game. All other motion around them is constant since it is controlled by non-sentient beings who do not ever vary. “If that space was open 5 seconds ago when I last looked, it must still be now. So why bother looking.”
Much of the problem here is that people do not play more sports. They don’t have any real experience with managing or responding to (with consequences if you get it wrong) an ever-changing environment.[/quote]
MM, your post has just brought to mind a book I read a year or so ago:
Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Soccer
In it, the author “gathers, through interviews with artists, critics and those at the forefront of Amsterdam’s cultural rise, as well as sportsmen, testament to the way life below sea level has taught Holland’s inhabitants to manage space judiciously. As he points out, Netherlanders are statistically the tallest people on Earth, yet the country’s architecture, against the unremittingly flat horizon, has developed into towering, narrow townhouses. More than mere prudent economy with area, Winner argues the Dutch afford space – in its most conceptual sense – a kind of respect. When, in the late '60s, Johan Cruyff and Rinus Michels – star player and manager, respectively, of Dutch team Ajax – began discussing “space” on the pitch, Dutch football became truly respectable.”
If a few more Taiwanese could learn to respect space, particularly other people’s, that would be a big step forward.
If a few more Taiwanese could learn to respect space, particularly other people’s, that would be a big step forward.[/quote]
Population densities.
1 Macau 20,824.38
2 Monaco 16,486.67
3 Hong Kong 6,571.14
4 Singapore 5,539.77
5 Gibraltar 4,486.92
6 Gaza Strip 3,090.71
7 Holy See 1,977.27
8 Bermuda 1,249.44
9 Malta 1,192.51
10 Bahrain 1,014.66
11 Maldives 1,000.73
12 Bangladesh 949.28
13 Jersey 773.46
14 Taiwan 685.47
15 Mauritius 639.03
16 Barbados 602.77
17 Nauru 505.00
18 Korea, South 477.49
19 Netherlands 466.
Quite similar, yet Holland is far more “orderly.”
People have long been attracted by chaos. Flaubert, for one, detested the cleanliness of Northern France, and much prefered chaotic Cairo.
Today, I like ramshackle Taiwan, for this very reason. It is, as Sandie once said, as if mom went out and left dad in charge. And it is this disarray, this lawlessness even, that is, for me at least, an attraction. One would only have to spend a little time in Singapore to see how bland and meek it is and how utterly sterile it is.
I think it’s more akin to flocking behavior in birds.
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]My father was fond of flinging accusations of gormlessness at me when I was a lad.
According to Eric Partridge’s Dictionary of Slang, “gormless”, meaning “slow-witted and lacking in common sense”, was adopted around 1935 from dialect as an adaptation of the predominant dialect form “gaumless”.[/quote]
Isn’t that what they say about us?
ROTFLMAO! That’s exactly how I feel about it, too.
[quote=“Alleycat”]
Population densities.
1 Macau 20,824.38
2 Monaco 16,486.67
3 Hong Kong 6,571.14
4 Singapore 5,539.77
5 Gibraltar 4,486.92
6 Gaza Strip 3,090.71
7 Holy See 1,977.27
8 Bermuda 1,249.44
9 Malta 1,192.51
10 Bahrain 1,014.66
11 Maldives 1,000.73
12 Bangladesh 949.28
13 Jersey 773.46
14 Taiwan 685.47
15 Mauritius 639.03
16 Barbados 602.77
17 Nauru 505.00
18 Korea, South 477.49
19 Netherlands 466. [/quote]
Interesting, but the figures are too simplistic. How can you compare the population of, say, a “city state” like Macau with a country like the Netherlands? The latter’s population distribution is quite different.
I lived in HK for years, and most Hong Kongers go to Macau to escape HK’s sea of people. According to this table, Macau is even worse. :loco:
[quote=“Alleycat”]
Population densities.
14 Taiwan 685.47 [/quote]Is that raw data of pop. per sq.km? If so, this is a misrepresentation since something like 70% of Taiwan’s land is too steep for habitation (thankfully). I bet the stats for inhabitable land area against population would tell a different story.
I think however that a lot of the lack of consideration for space comes from the speed at which Taiwan’s population has grown in the last hundred years. The Taiwanese just haven’t adapted subconciously to living in close proximity to each other and still behave as if they are the inhabitants of some vast, sparsely populated country where there’s always an ‘away’ to throw things that aren’t wanted anymore, and there’s somewhere to move to get away from the neighbours you don’t get along with. A lot of the problems people are having in their daily lives are the effects of this fantasy clashing with the reality that there isn’t any space.
A good example of this is the way that people will always describe Taipei as crowded, busy, bustling etc etc., and then in the next breath walk or drive around as if they were the only ones on the planet, looking quite surprised when bumping into another person… I still find this quite fascinating.
Many other countries have urban conurbations with higher population densities than Taipei, yet people are far better adjusted to living in those environments.
I was under the impression, mistaken perhaps, that taiwan is the second most densly populated country, after Bangladesh. 
Me too, but I understand that statement to be qualified by the fact that it is based on the arable land in the country, not just the size of the country.
1 Macau 20,824.38
2 Monaco 16,486.67
3 Hong Kong 6,571.14
4 Singapore 5,539.77
5 Gibraltar 4,486.92
6 Gaza Strip 3,090.71
7 Holy See 1,977.27
8 Bermuda 1,249.44
9 Malta 1,192.51
10 Bahrain 1,014.66
11 Maldives 1,000.73
12 Bangladesh 949.28
13 Jersey 773.46
14 Taiwan 685.47
15 Mauritius 639.03
16 Barbados 602.77
17 Nauru 505.00
18 Korea, South 477.49
19 Netherlands 466.
It is really. The others in between are islands or city-states.
Taiwan is an island, too.
Some of you might find this tableinteresting - it shows population density by urban area, and gives densities much closer to what one would intuitively ‘expect’ from having visited those areas. Taipei (which you’ll find listed under ‘China’ :s) looks like it would rank very high on the list if the densities were ordered - actually, a lot higher than I would have expected.
BTW, good post, straggly one 
I always thought Taiwanese more feckless than gormless.
According to the table, only Ho Chi Minh City, Cairo and the urban areas of Hong Kong have higher population densities than Taipei.
I’m surprised that no cities in the PRC (excluding HK) have higher population densities than Taipei – but those figures aren’t bang up to date, and given the rate at which people are migrating to the cities in China compared with the fairly stable population of Taipei, I’m sure several of their cities will soon be appearing above Taipei in that table, if they don’t belong there already.
I think it’s supermarket shoppers that are gormless, not specifically Taiwanese ones – try any Marks & Spencer in Edinburgh on a busy Saturday and you’ll be struck by total lack of collective gorm.
As for the escalator problem, that’s an easy one – just push 'em inexorably forward and eventually they’ll start to lose balance and stumble forward. Once they’re happily traveling, they’ll glare over their shoulder at you, who in turn simply glare over your own shoulder at the person behind you.
Heeling is also a good one – simply step on the back of the person’s shoe, but don’t be an amateur. The mark of a skilled heeler is when you can consistently get the foot to come completely out of the shoe. Things like this are what make shopping trips fun, or at least bearable.
Population density figures for HK are misleading as most of Hong Kong Territory is uninhabited. Density in Mong Kok and Sham Shui Po, for example, is the highest in the world. Up in the New Territories there’s neither man nor beast in some parts. They all live on top of each other in Sha Tin. This is how Chinese people like to live. Also the south part of the Island is pretty sparesly populated in parts. Do they include the sea in their figures ?
Can somebody explain why Taiwanese people when turning into a main road from a side road never look in the direction of the oncoming traffic to see if there’s a car coming ? My theory is that it is an inability to calculate or an unfamiliarity with the concept of risk. (This may explain Taiwanese banks’ hilarious non-performing loan ratios. And it may not.)
Any ideas ?
[quote=“sandman”]I think it’s supermarket shoppers that are gormless, not specifically Taiwanese ones – try any Marks & Spencer in Edinburgh on a busy Saturday and you’ll be struck by total lack of collective gorm.
As for the escalator problem, that’s an easy one – just push 'em inexorably forward and eventually they’ll start to lose balance and stumble forward. Once they’re happily traveling, they’ll glare over their shoulder at you, who in turn simply glare over your own shoulder at the person behind you.
Heeling is also a good one – simply step on the back of the person’s shoe, but don’t be an amateur. The mark of a skilled heeler is when you can consistently get the foot to come completely out of the shoe. Things like this are what make shopping trips fun, or at least bearable.[/quote]
All great ways of getting your own space.
It can be frustrating living here where one finger tends to be up the nose and the other scratching their heads as clerks play “Pass the foreigner” in the stores here. I’m all for island mentality and relaxing a bit instead of being in a rush, but jeez louise, sometimes I think if they went any slower, they’d go backwards.
By the way, to echo the sentiments of everyone else on this thread…excellent post, stragbasher :bravo: 