# Taiwanese Politics & Uncertainty - Bad time to move there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Taiwan Politics\ **Created:** [October 2, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251 "2006-10-02T18:54:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/81 "2006-10-06T05:39:05Z")
South China Morning Post Denies Assertions By Philip P. Pan The Washington Post BEIJING, April 30 Hong Kong’s top English-language newspaper has fired its Beijing bureau chief after he complained that editors were softening the paper’s coverage of China. The dismissal immediately renewed concerns about the erosion of press freedom in the former British colony now under Chinese rule. Jasper Becker, 45, a respected journalist who has written three books about China, was abruptly dismissed by the South China Morning Post on Monday just weeks after he complained to Post editor Thomas Abraham that the paper was restricting his reporting and playing down sensitive subjects such as Tibet, labor unrest and AIDS. “I feel deep regret. A few years ago, the paper’s China coverage was something to be proud of,” Becker said today after cleaning out his office, where management had already ordered the locks changed. “Now they want to ingratiate themselves with the Chinese authorities. They feel that’s in their best interest, both their political interest and commercial interest.” The South China Morning Post has made no secret of its ambition to expand by publishing Chinese-language magazines and one day launching an English-language paper in the mainland ventures that would require approval from Beijing. The paper’s majority owner, tycoon Robert Kuok, also has substantial business interests both in the mainland and Hong Kong. A spokeswoman for the newspaper, Swee Lynn Chong, said Becker was fired for “insubordination, refusing to work under and report to the China editor,” and nothing else. She said the paper remained committed to aggressive reporting on China, and if anything, had expanded its coverage, adding two pages of mainland news in the past two years. “I don’t care what Jasper is saying,” she said. “He has never been prevented from reporting and publishing sensitive stories.” [b]Becker is the latest in a series of independent-minded journalists to leave the Post. Willy Lo-Lap Lam, a prominent columnist known for his insider tales of Communist Party intrigue, complained he was being muzzled and quit in December 2000. The paper’s op-ed editor, Danny Gittings, was laid off several months later. The departures follow a period from 1995 to 1999 when then-Post editor Jonathan Fenby said Kuok and other executives repeatedly pressured him to dismiss journalists and make the paper friendlier to both Beijing and the new Hong Kong government.[/b] While Hong Kong is home to more than a dozen daily newspapers and at least six commercial TV and radio stations, all of which operate without direct government control, there is growing concern among journalists about self-censorship. “It’s very worrying,” said Cliff Bale, a member of the Hong Kong Journalist Association’s executive committee. “We see a trend of more critical journalists either resigning, being forced out or sacked. In a lot of areas, the Hong Kong media remains free. But in sensitive areas to China Taiwan, Tibet, dissidents, the inner workings of the Party I think there is a trend to exercise caution.” Beijing promised “a high degree of autonomy” for Hong Kong when it regained sovereignty of the territory in 1997. But Hong Kong is preparing to enact legislation to outlaw subversion against China, and many journalists are worried that some reporting could be prohibited under the act. One Chinese official has already warned Hong Kong media not to report on viewpoints supporting independence for Taiwan, which Beijing considers part of China. Becker said he complained to Abraham after months of difficulties with the paper’s China editor, Wang Xiangwei, who was appointed in late 2000 and once worked for Beijing’s state-controlled China Daily. He said Wang blocked a reporting trip to Tibet and coverage of a protest by AIDS patients, among other moves to downplay sensitive stories. Becker also said the paper had been under pressure by the Chinese government to replace its reporters in Beijing with Chinese staff from Hong Kong a charge the paper also denied. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/82 "2006-10-06T05:43:09Z")
[quote=“thyrdrail”] > [@](#): > > There was a point during the adjustment period where many HK’ers were concerned about their futures. But 9 years after reunification, confidence in “One Country, Two Systems”, in the Beijing leadership, in press freedoms, and in China as a whole continues to grow. Another under-informed, over-opinionated, biased comment. There are many Chinese in Hong Kong who STILL think things were better under British rule. What about all those democracy protests that still occur annually after the handover? 200,000-500,000 protesters each time. They were promised popular elections to elect their leaders, denied and thus were lied to. Of course, the democratic will of the people has diminished due to Beijing suppression over the years, thus people like you think they’re “content”. Nice spin. Taiwanese know better. One country, Two systems is a SHAM.[/quote] I think there’s two possibilities here. You either don’t know how to follow a link, or you’re in capable of understanding a graph, or you don’t know the difference between a personal opinion and a statistically calculated result. On the off chance that it’s one of the first two… here’s the link again. Take some time and try to understand it. [hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress/index.html](http://hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress/index.html) If you still don’t get it, then I guess it’s the last condition. ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/83 "2006-10-06T05:43:38Z")
CHINA: Sacked editor speaks out on ‘self-censorship’ Ex-editor talks about reasons why he was fired and management’s tendencies to practice self-censorship South China Morning Post Monday, February 13, 2006 By Vivian Wu The former editor of Beijing’s outspoken Public Interest Times has published an open letter explaining why he was fired and accusing the newspaper’s executives of carrying out self-censorship. Chen Jieren was sacked last Wednesday after the paper carried his article criticising incorrect English translations on the central government’s new official website. Chief editor Liu Youping said during several interviews with overseas media that Mr Chen had been fired for his “bad management skills and poor performance”. In a 10,000-word article headlined “Ridiculous Game, Despicable Intrigue” – originally published on the academic website, [www.acriticism.com](http://www.acriticism.com), at the weekend – Mr Chen explained how he came to be sacked, and said he was motivated to reveal the truth by Mr Liu’s “slanderous words”. “As a preventive measure, the newspaper announced it was sacking me to forestall a possible investigation” after the article was published last Tuesday, Mr Chen wrote. “In light of Liu Youping’s despicable tricks and his remarks, which are wholly blind to the facts, I decided to withdraw my previous promise not to make any public remarks on the event, and disclose the entire event to the public.” Mr Chen said the newspaper’s executives were trying to preserve their own positions by “passing the buck” onto him and destroying his reputation. He denied being sacked for poor performance, citing several cases he said showed that he had been trying to turn Public Interest Times into “an outspoken newspaper that reports the truth with a conscience”. [b]Under Mr Chen’s initiative, the paper ran an investigative story last month claiming more than 50 million yuan in relief funds allocated by Beijing to flood victims in Weinan, Shaanxi province, had been held up by provincial and municipal governments. The story upset the Shaanxi provincial government, which complained to the Ministry of Civil Affairs, the governing body for news media. Mr Chen also disclosed several alleged cases of self-censorship by the newspaper and Mr Liu over a five-month period. He criticised Mr Liu’s fawning attitude towards the ministry and for hedging the newspaper’s goal of “reporting the truth with a conscience”. Mr Chen alleged continuous interference in the newspaper’s reporting by Civil Affairs Minister Li Xueju, who criticised the paper for “causing trouble time after time”. He claimed that he and colleagues had received threatening messages from their superiors while working on sensitive stories.[/b] Public Interest Times also published a satirical article suggesting that Li Rongrong , chairman of the state-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, be given a Nobel Prize for his verbal contribution to mainland monopolies. He had claimed there were almost no monopolies in the petroleum, telecommunications and electricity sectors, and that competition had led to big profits in those industries. A profile of President Hu Jintao last month was greeted with displeasure by the civil affairs minister because it violated the rule that all reporting on top leaders must be written by Xinhua. Date Posted: 2/13/2006 ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/84 "2006-10-06T05:44:15Z")
Is this the first time you’ve ever stumbled onto a public forum? Didn’t anyone ever teach you it’s bad manners to repeatedly post articles, especially _old_ articles, in its entirety? ---
**Author:** ![zeugmite](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/z/9d8465/32.png) [@zeugmite](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/zeugmite)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/85 "2006-10-06T05:45:14Z")
Betel Nut / ‘Betel Nut Girls’ - ‘Binlang Girls’ This legal stimulant is basically Taiwan’s version of chewing tobacco, but it’s something you really have to try once to understand. Betel Nut (the English name) or ‘Binlang’ (Bing-long), is a type of fan palm tree which is native to Taiwan, Thailand and other Southeast Asian countries. In fact, this is such an important cash crop in the region that many farmers subsist on it alone and it is Taiwan’s second largest agricultural crop. This coconut-like tree produces a seed that when chewed creates a chewing tobacco-like buzz. It is usually sold with a slit down the middle, mixed with lime (not the fruit but a caltrate that is scrapped from seashells and the like…) and wrapped in a leaf. The first time you try it may make it your last as it is a very strong, uncomfortably hot feeling (DON’T SWALLOW THE JUICE! Spit it out…). Long-term use can lead to oral cancer and can stain the teeth a nasty dark, reddish-brown color (as well as the fingernails…) What separates Taiwan from other nearby countries who also grow Betel Nut, is their unique marketing technique: the ubiquitous Betel Nut Girl. The traditional name in Chinese is: binlang xishi. Dressed at times in little more than a string bikini, young Taiwanese women sit alongside freeways and roadsides in a clear glass booth (often covered by flashing neon lights), hawking small packages of Betel Nut to passerbys & truck drivers. A lot like a roadside strip show, this technique is familiar to all who travel Taiwan and should not be missed on a trip to Taiwan if for nothing more than the originality and sheer spectacle. Not surprisingly, many politicians have recently decided to crack down on the trend. In addition to deriding users for constantly spitting the reddish liquid on city streets and insisting that the roadside girls (who regularly put up with drunken customers and economic circumstances out of their control) are bad for the country’s image, they and other ‘reformers’ have undertaken a variety of tactics to deal with the explosion of Betel Nut Girls island-wide. However, after harrassing and arresting girls for indecent exposure or even prostitution, the lawmakers have had their hands tied by the powerful farm lobby of betel nut growers (& chewers…) who have thus far made sure that no lawmaker outlaw the practice entirely. ---
**Author:** ![zeugmite](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/z/9d8465/32.png) [@zeugmite](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/zeugmite)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:46am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/86 "2006-10-06T05:46:43Z")
thyrdrail should read all about old and tired binlang articles, because gosh darn it, I posted them. Then I might read what (s)he posted. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/87 "2006-10-06T05:47:14Z")
[quote=“thyrdrail”]CHINA: Sacked editor speaks out on ‘self-censorship’ Ex-editor talks about reasons why he was fired and management’s tendencies to practice self-censorship South China Morning Post Monday, February 13, 2006 [/quote] Wait, is this an article in the South China Morning Post that talks about mainland China in a negative way? I thought they got rid of that when the PLA lined up and shot all the independent journalists in Hong Kong. Then again, it’s probably the fact that articles like this are still published that people in Hong Kong feel so positively about press freedoms: [hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress … alfyr1.gif](http://hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress/freeind/freeq58/halfyr/chart_new/halfyr1.gif) ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/88 "2006-10-06T05:50:39Z")
> [@cctang](#): > > Is this the first time you’ve ever stumbled onto a public forum? Didn’t anyone ever teach you it’s bad manners to repeatedly post articles, especially _old_ articles, in its entirety? i suppose you’re not a history buff. i post it in entirety so others may read them without having to click a link and pop open a new window. it’s for their convenience. ---
**Author:** ![zeugmite](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/z/9d8465/32.png) [@zeugmite](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/zeugmite)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/89 "2006-10-06T05:51:39Z")
It’s for your convenience that I decided you are too “differently able” to learn about binlang on your own. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/90 "2006-10-06T05:53:52Z")
> [@thyrdrail](#): > > [quote=“cctang”]Is this the first time you’ve ever stumbled onto a public forum? Didn’t anyone ever teach you it’s bad manners to repeatedly post articles, especially _old_ articles, in its entirety? i suppose you’re not a history buff. i post it in entirety so others may read them without having to click a link and pop open a new window. it’s for their convenience.[/quote] Even if you don’t agree it’s common sense, maybe you should take a look at the rules: [forumosa.org/forum-rules](http://www.forumosa.org/forum-rules) "Do not post articles - use links instead. Quoted sources should be limited to one paragraph in length, or less. Try to keep the text relevant to the topic as much as possible. " "Multiple back-to-back posts are spam. If you wish to add to a post you just made, please go back to that post and use the edit function to add the additional information. Do not create a new post. " If you’re trying to make a point, try articulating it rather than swamping us. Believe me, I’ve read all of those articles. ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/91 "2006-10-06T05:54:56Z")
this is from APRIL 26, 2006. you know, 5 months ago, this year, 2006 or is that too _old_ for you? more censorship by Beijing. It’s slow, it’s subtle, but it’s happening. The question is if Hong Kong citizens care enough to do something about it. [iht.com/articles/2006/04/26/news/hong.php](http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/26/news/hong.php) Hong Kong public broadcaster faces added scrutiny By Ng Tze-wei The New York Times WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 HONG KONG The Hong Kong government said Wednesday that it would create an audit team to monitor Hong Kong’s public broadcaster, which has come under increasing criticism for its critical reporting on government policies, especially the government’s stance on broader democracy. Joseph Wong, the Hong Kong secretary for commerce, industry and technology, said that a new audit report on the operations of the public broadcaster, Radio Television Hong Kong, found that it had management problems and did not comply with government rules and procedures. The report criticized what was described as the improper granting of overtime and a failure to comply with government procurement regulations. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/92 "2006-10-06T05:58:55Z")
No, it’s not too old for me. But the polite and intelligent thing to do would be to link to all of these articles in a single post, with a succint summary of each… and an actual articulated _point_ for discussion. Your inability to do so so far suggests a lack of interest in _discussion_. ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/93 "2006-10-06T06:03:47Z")
this is July 1, 2006 you know, 3 months ago, this year in 2006. still too _old_? clearly not everyone in Hong Kong is happy with just making money… [boston.com/news/world/asia/a … hong\_kong/](http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/07/01/thousands_march_for_democracy_in_hong_kong/) Thousands march for democracy in Hong Kong Tens of thousands of people take part in a democracy march in Hong Kong, marking the ninth anniversary of the former British colony’s return to Chinese rule, July 1, 2006. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip) By John Ruwitch | July 1, 2006 HONG KONG (Reuters) - Thousands of people marched in central Hong Kong to demand full democracy on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the former British colony’s return to Chinese rule. ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:08am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/94 "2006-10-06T06:08:11Z")
[quote=“cctang”]No, it’s not too old for me. But the polite and intelligent thing to do would be to link to all of these articles in a single post, with a succint summary of each… and an actual articulated _point_ for discussion. Your inability to do so so far suggests a lack of interest in _discussion_.[/quote] personally, i like to read the articles that people post. therefore, i can acquire all the information myself, make an analyzation and post my viewpoint, so then others in the forum can criticize me as an “under-informed, over-opinionated recent graduate (?).” but i decided on a new change in strategy: i’ll let the writers of these articles for major news institutions (perhaps recent graduates themselves, have no clue), of which i have been using as sources to formulate my under-informed, over-opinionated opinions, speak for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/95 "2006-10-06T06:17:43Z")
> [@](#): > > i’ll let the writers of these articles for major news institutions (perhaps recent graduates themselves, have no clue), of which i have been using as sources to formulate my under-informed, over-opinionated opinions, speak for themselves. I think that’s a fine idea. Now, what are they saying? Your most recent article posted that thousands marched for democracy in Hong Kong. Quite true. Hundreds of thousands in Hong Kong have marched for democracy, in memory of 6/4, in resistance to freedom-restricting laws in the past 5 years. So, again. Point? Do you have one? Are you really going to make this thread about your own voyage of self discovery? Should we just leave you alone until you’re done? ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/96 "2006-10-06T06:32:32Z")
> [@cctang](#): > > [quote] i’ll let the writers of these articles for major news institutions (perhaps recent graduates themselves, have no clue), of which i have been using as sources to formulate my under-informed, over-opinionated opinions, speak for themselves. I think that’s a fine idea. Now, what are they saying? Your most recent article posted that thousands marched for democracy in Hong Kong. Quite true. Hundreds of thousands in Hong Kong have marched for democracy, in memory of 6/4, in resistance to freedom-restricting laws in the past 5 years. So, again. Point? Do you have one? Are you really going to make this thread about your own voyage of self discovery? Should we just leave you alone until you’re done?[/quote] I’ve made my point. And many points. But you have this persistence to discredit my points with your own over-opinionated points and then make some personal criticisms as well. So I’m not going to waste my time expressing my points, and instead just post the sources and let you criticize the writers themselves (which you already have, no surprise). And there’s alot of them. You haven’t told me what you do, btw. You’ve already established me as an uninformed, recent graduate. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/97 "2006-10-06T06:39:17Z")
[quote=“thyrdrail”]I’ve made my point. And many points. But you have this persistence to discredit my points with your own over-opinionated points and then make some personal criticisms as well. So I’m not going to waste my time expressing my points, and instead just post the sources themselves. And there’s alot of them. You haven’t told me what you do, btw. You’ve already established me as a imisinformed recent graduate.[/quote] You have stated your points. Making a point is something else, and can only be judged by the reader, not the author. If your point was to prove me wrong, you certainly haven’t been very convincing so far. What do I “do”? I put aside preconceptions and try to discuss issues from the ground-up. Over many, many hours spent discussing and thinking about issues like this… I have strongly held opinions. But I’m more than willing to repeat and dissect any of my points in any detail, with anyone. I enjoy having my opinions challenged; it makes me understand myself and the issues even better. You should try it some time. ---
**Author:** ![thyrdrail](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@thyrdrail](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/thyrdrail)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/98 "2006-10-06T06:46:46Z")
[quote=“cctang”] If your point was to prove me wrong, you certainly haven’t been very convincing so far. What do I “do”? I put aside preconceptions and try to discuss issues from the ground-up. Over many, many hours spent discussing and thinking about issues like this… I have strongly held opinions. But I’m more than willing to repeat and dissect any of my points in any detail, with anyone. I enjoy having my opinions challenged; it makes me understand myself and the issues even better. You should try it some time.[/quote] I’m not trying to prove you wrong. I read your opinions and respect them, even if I dont agree with some of them. I’m not looking for a debate and have no interest to challenge your ‘strongly held opinions.’ Why should I? You’re certainly entitled to them. I was merely expressing mine and I would think I have a right to do that. ---
**Author:** ![cctang](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@cctang](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cctang)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/99 "2006-10-06T06:52:57Z")
> [@thyrdrail](#): > > I’m not trying to prove you wrong. I read your opinions and respect them, even if I dont agree with some of them. I’m not looking for a debate and have no interest to challenge your ‘strongly held opinions.’ Why should I? I was merely expressing mine and I would think I have a right to do that. Fair enough. I don’t want to give you a hard time over any single statement that you might’ve made, and frankly, I don’t think we’re getting anything done here. If you want to discuss what’s going on in Hong Kong, especially as it relates to political changes in mainland China and the potential future of Taiwan… I’m more than willing to do that on a respectful level. Maybe we should start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![zeugmite](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/z/9d8465/32.png) [@zeugmite](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/zeugmite)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251/100 "2006-10-06T06:55:50Z")
Excuse me, but in fact I don’t see th’y’rdrail’s point, especially after this: [quote=“cctang”]I think there’s two possibilities here. You either don’t know how to follow a link, or you’re in capable of understanding a graph, or you don’t know the difference between a personal opinion and a statistically calculated result. On the off chance that it’s one of the first two… here’s the link again. Take some time and try to understand it. [hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress/index.html](http://hkupop.hku.hk/english/popexpress/index.html) If you still don’t get it, then I guess it’s the last condition.[/quote] What is your point? This? > [@thyrdrail](#): > > Of course, the democratic will of the people has diminished due to Beijing suppression over the years, thus people like you think they’re “content”. (emphasis added) First of all, none of your poop dumps after that backs up this claim. Back up this claim. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251.md?page=4) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwanese-politics-uncertainty-bad-time-to-move-there/32251.md?page=6)