Taiwan's new TET teacher exchange program

[Alleycat]

Methinks Taiwanese English teachers are not doing themselves any favors by using the arguments they so far have come up with.

[maoman]

@grahamg

My accent is my culture, my heritage and there is no way i am going to act another accent, especially a septic tank one, in order to please a few ignorant people.

That’s pretty harsh. Your post is about the intrinsic unfairness of discriminating against different kinds of English accents, and then you get a bad case of potty-mouth yourself. What’s with that? :?

[color=darkred]As Sandman just pointed out, septic tank is, of course, rhyming slang for Yank. I knew that, just didn’t have my brain switched on…[/color]

[sandman]

What potty mouth? That’s just rhyming slang. Nothing dirty aboot it at all, eh?

[cranky_laowai]

@hsiadogah

Sure, those high school teachers may only get 40k or so in their paypackets, but what about all the under table cash from the bushibans that surround the school? They all take major kickbacks from local cram schools for recommending their students go to bushiban x instead of y or z.

I happen to know many teachers. My wife is one of them.
They most certainly don’t all “take major kickbacks.”

[amos]

Grey, it sucks mate, but this is Taiwan. I was turned turned down by a couple of gigs when I first got here because of all this accept crap. Their loss anyway. Then when I started at my first job, some chick who was a dead ringer of Big Bird of Sesame Street fame was telling me my pronounciation was all wrong. I was arguing with her on purpose, just so I could hear her say, “no, you can’t say can’t like that”, but everytime she was saying it, she’d drop the T, so she was saying “no you can say can like that!! OK?” I was thinking ‘listen sweetheart, give us some of that shit you’re on’.

[sandman]

@cranky laowai

[quote=“hsiadogah”]Sure, those high school teachers may only get 40k or so in their paypackets, but what about all the under table cash from the bushibans that surround the school? They all take major kickbacks from local cram schools for recommending their students go to bushiban x instead of y or z.

I happen to know many teachers. My wife is one of them.
They most certainly don’t all “take major kickbacks.” [/quote]

And my bro-in-law runs a bushiban and he most certainly does not pay teachers for recommendations. Not saying that it doesn’t happen, of course, but please don’t be so quick to tar everyone with the same brush, eh?

[OldToeSave]

I think this TET thing is offensive…

get it?

“TET Offensive”

Bahahahahahhahhhahhaaaa

I kill me!

[Alleycat]

Tet is of course tit in Afrikaans.

[Okami]

Taiwanese teachers are scared of many things with this program. I’ll list some in my trademark fashion.

1. Having to communicate and deal with a foreigner

2. Comparison, What if the foreigner gets results?

3. If they don’t give the foreigner the fringe benefits, will they take them away from teachers?

4. New methodology used and what it means to those with a stake in keeping the status quo.

5. Managerial Issues, you can’t abuse your foreign employess likr youe Taiwanese ones, unless their from Asia, than you can treat them worse.

I can see this proposal getting narrower and narrower, such as dropping the salary and additional training being required. This will of course make the programm ineffective and insure a place for buxibans in much the same way as Japan and S. Korea. I was disheartened at first and then it dawned on me. This is just business as usual.

CYA
Okami

[Tomas]

@grahamg

if they were serious in wanting to learn the english language, then they would cater for the various derivatives of it. this whole issue of the language program is just one example of how taiwan is severly lagging behind the world in being a true international destination.

I quite agree. I don’t believe that learning English from a North American-accented speaker is necessary in the development of fluent listening skills.

I also agree that there are significant differences among regional accents in the States.

Most teachers and businesspeople I know, regardless of national origin, will adjust their speech patterns, speed, choice of vocabulary, and intonation when speaking to a group or individual here, not because they aren’t proud of their national origins, but because listening comprehension skills are so weak here. Hell, the majority of my adult learners learned English from a Taiwanese teacher who taught exclusively in Mandarin. How ridiculous is that? It shocked me at first. Now, I’m used to it, and am forced to do the same thing in my classes.

I wish I could teach in English, but I can’t change a system that teaches students to look at English as a difficult, mystery-laden language that can only be learned if you have an open electronic dictionary. I also teach in Mandarin because I teach writing and reading for difficult tests, and we wouldn’t accomplish 10% of what we accomplish now if I taught them in English rather than Mandarin.

[redwagon]

Cranky: Congrats, your wife is above that sort of thing, and I apologise. But, if her diploma isn’t on the wall of a cram school or two she’s missing out on the action.

Sandy: I’m glad your in-law doesn’t need to, but you could ask him if his competitors don’t do exactly that sort of thing.

I promise I’ll never, ever, use the word ‘all’ again. Ever.

[Mucha_Man]

I’m sorry but I can’t understand a word any of you are saying except Maoman. Please speak Canadian.

[sandman]

I have edited my posts to make them understandable to Canadians. Sorry for the confusion, Muzha Man, eh?

[twonavels]

Alleycat, is tet really tit in Afrikaans?
Or am I not getting something?

[Alleycat]

Yep.

Sy het n lekker paar tette.

She has a nice pair of tits.

[Mucha_Man]

I have edited my posts to make them understandable to Canadians. Sorry for the confusion, Muzha Man, eh?

Much(a) obliged old chap. But please leave out the “eh”. It’s painful to think that that is the most recognizable linguistic tic to come from the uncleland.

[Bassman]

Michael Turton wrote taipeitimes.com/News/edit/ar … /13/190848

[wix]

Michael Turton’s article in the TT raises a few good points and a number of bad ones.

The good points

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

Large-scale employment of foreigners in Taiwanese schools may require the establishment of a centralized body at the ministry to handle this program, similar to the program at the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) for handling foreign laborers and servants. This program should be staffed entirely by long-term foreigners who speak and read Chinese and have some familiarity with the school system, with branch offices in the major cities and on the east coast, to handle the conflicts that are inevitably going to arise

I think a few others mentioned the need for this earlier in this thread.

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

Since not all recruits will be posted to large cities with good transportation systems, they should also receive driver’s licenses that restrict them to 50CC scooters.

Not a bad idea, but why not give them a full motorcycle and car driver’s licence provided they already hold a licence in their home country.

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

The training center should be located in a medium-sized city such as Fengyuan or Hualien, where costs are lower and trainees will be forced to navigate in Mandarin. This will also give them a taste of what Taiwan is really like.

Another good idea. But wait until you hear about his other suggestions for the training program…

The bad points

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

The MOE’s current suggestion, that such [training] programs be two weeks in length, is laughably inadequate; at least four weeks, six days a week, 12 hours a day, is the minimum acceptable for such a program. Trainees should receive at least four hours a day of intensive Mandarin, four to six hours a day of teacher training, two hours a day of cultural, legal and administrative training and driver training.

Maybe he wants the trainees to understand what life is really like for Taiwanse high school students!!! Any classes over and above 8 hours a day would not lead to effective learning. I suggest a 2 week training program is adequate if:
(1) They hire people with sufficient qualifications in the first place.
(2) There is ongoing training, professional development and support after the training program is finished.

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

Inevitably trainees will skip out early from the program. For that reason, the MOE should withhold at least half their monthly salary for the first six months or so, and pay the balance plus interest if they finish the first year. After that, trainees can go on the regular salary. A system of pay raises will have to be implemented to give foreigners an incentive to stay in Taiwan. A regular system of performance reviews should also be established

Isn’t it illegal for employees to hold work deposits!!! It is better to have incentives rather than punishments anyway. A pay rise after six months and a bonus is a much better way to encourage people to stay in the program.

@Michael Turton in the Taipei Times

The program should be absolutely ruthless in eliminating incompetent and lazy foreign teachers, and should be given the power to withhold salary and revoke visas.

Maybe it could be equally ruthless in “eliminating incompetent and lazy local teachers”. Again the suggestion of “withhold[ing] salary and revok(e)[ing] visas” is a bit extreme.

==============================
btw, Michael Turton has an excellent web site about living and teaching in Taiwan. users2.ev1.net/~turton/teach_index.html

[ar-grp]

anytime the Taiwan government does anything, (ie., build a MRT), it will do it in the most EXPENSIVE way or in the most STUPID way. Hey, that’s politics.

Now, i think this new proposal stinks rotten because it will be screwed up in the end. Local teachers will not see this as something to learn from. Instead they will try to destroy the program…

The Taiwan education system is a failure because the local teachers (most of them) have absolutely no imagination. I feel pity for their students and thank the lord for my liberal arts education.

Peace out

[Vorkosigan]

Thanks for all the positive comments!

Maybe he wants the trainees to understand what life is really like for Taiwanse high school students!!! Any classes over and above 8 hours a day would not lead to effective learning. I suggest a 2 week training program is adequate if:
(1) They hire people with sufficient qualifications in the first place.
(2) There is ongoing training, professional development and support after the training program is finished.

Actually, I am drawing on my experience as a Peace Corps volunteer in Kenya 15 years ago. We had three months of training – it was hardly enough so that we could teach in the local school system – and later as a trainer in that system. It was pretty much as I said here.

IMHO, 10-12 hours a day is realistic and effective provided everyone involved is competent. Granted, Peace Corps is a highly select group, but I think we can do it here too, if the trainers are good, and if the curriculum is well-laid out so that there is plenty of variety.

Isn’t it illegal for employees to hold work deposits!!! It is better to have incentives rather than punishments anyway. A pay rise after six months and a bonus is a much better way to encourage people to stay in the program.

I disagree. We can expect to lose quite a few people, once they get into the schools here and deal with the shit of taiwanese office politics and the drudgery of teaching. Not everyone is going to Taipei First Girls, quite a few will be sent to Future Gangster High in A-Bird-Wouldn’t-Shit-or-Die-Here, Nantou County. In fact, preparing the trainees for the unholy shit of everyday life in the schools will be extremely difficult. The locals will almost certainly object to any realistic picture of life in a Taiwanese school…

Illegal or not, both punitive and incentive measures will be necessary. That’s a fact of life. We can call it a “training wage” like they do at ELSI (still??) and some other schools. Whatever fig leaf we use, I think we’ll need it.

Maybe it could be equally ruthless in “eliminating incompetent and lazy local teachers”. Again the suggestion of “withhold[ing] salary and revok(e)[ing] visas” is a bit extreme.

My attitude is, the program should establish credibility right away and in spades. Too, it might be a salutary lesson for locals to see how quickly the foreigners get rid of bad apples. I’m of course viewing the program from the perspective of admin, not of teachers. The two sides have different agendas… .

Another thing I wanted to avoid in that commentary was hacking on the locals, which is a bit like shooting whales in a swimming pool. My website (thanks for the kind words!) has already attracted at least one NetStalker who reported me (hilariously) to the FBI and (not hilariously) to the local Council on Labor Affairs. Additionally, I often write blunt critiques in the local paper, so decided some positive suggestions would be a nice change from my usual style. And of course, my trademark Delendo Est Cartago! in the last paragraph – I always hack on the Chinese for their brutal and expansionist habits, and like to remind people that internationalizing the Taiwan case is part of a robust strategy for saving the island from Beijing – not that the locals seem to care overly much themselves!

But thanks for the comments. Hope we can stimulate some serious discussion of this. I am putting together a radio show on this topic for February, to be broadcast through the MoE system, so comments would be very welcome.

Vorkosigan
(Michael Turton)