[quote=“biggyweiting”]
3) Everyone is responsible for their own situation. The color of your skin is not a problem. You can’t read or speak Mandarin? That’s your fault, learn. You can read and speak? Great, then you must have a problem because you’re not a citizen? Then become a citizen. You are a citizen and you can also read and speak Mandarin? Well, then the problem you are facing with the crappy website is still not designed to single you out, it’s obviously just as crappy for everyone else. It’s only crappy for foreigners? Ok, then that means its just as crappy for foreigners of every race, not just your race.
The issue is that the iNon terminal does not accept ARC or passport numbers but only ROC-ID numbers. That is a very unnecessary limitation, especially considering this is about public transportation.
I suppose the most promising course of action would be suggesting the NIA to issue ARC/APRC numbers that start with one letter only.
Now that would be the argument against any claim of being a victim of structural discrimination. Just go back to your home country. If you have a job and your family in Taiwan it’s a different story. And where should this logic end? “If the foreigner had just stayed in his home country, I would not have hit his car and would not need to pay compensation. It’s the foreigner’s fault!”. This notion is quite similar to yours.
And yes it is backwards and racist to exclude non-citizens from booking a ticket and pay for it in cash at 7-11, a pillar of infrastructure in Taiwan. Not racist because 7-11 had in mind to exclude foreign nationals, but racist because the possibility that a foreign national ay a) be able to read Chinese and b) would like to use the train was not even anticipated. A foreign national is simply not part of the target demographic for something as basic as public transportation. Now that is racist as hell.
[quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“biggyweiting”]
3) Everyone is responsible for their own situation. The color of your skin is not a problem. You can’t read or speak Mandarin? That’s your fault, learn. You can read and speak? Great, then you must have a problem because you’re not a citizen? Then become a citizen. You are a citizen and you can also read and speak Mandarin? Well, then the problem you are facing with the crappy website is still not designed to single you out, it’s obviously just as crappy for everyone else. It’s only crappy for foreigners? Ok, then that means its just as crappy for foreigners of every race, not just your race.
The issue is that the iNon terminal does not accept ARC or passport numbers but only ROC-ID numbers. That is a very unnecessary limitation, especially considering this is about public transportation.
I suppose the most promising course of action would be suggesting the NIA to issue ARC/APRC numbers that start with one letter only.
Now that would be the argument against any claim of being a victim of structural discrimination. Just go back to your home country. If you have a job and your family in Taiwan it’s a different story. And where should this logic end? “If the foreigner had just stayed in his home country, I would not have hit his car and would not need to pay compensation. It’s the foreigner’s fault!”. This notion is quite similar to yours.
And yes it is backwards and racist to exclude non-citizens from booking a ticket and pay for it in cash at 7-11, a pillar of infrastructure in Taiwan. Not racist because 7-11 had in mind to exclude foreign nationals, but racist because the possibility that a foreign national ay a) be able to read Chinese and b) would like to use the train was not even anticipated. A foreign national is simply not part of the target demographic for something as basic as public transportation. Now that is racist as hell.[/quote]
I think you missed my point.
If they are excluding you intentionally, and it is because you are foreign, then no, it’s not racist, as your nationality has nothing to do with your race.
If they are unintentionally excluding you because they don’t offer proper second language versions of “x” then again, that’s not them being racist, that is you needing to learn the language of the country you are in.
Also, I am not saying that anyone who experiences a problem should just up and leave. What I am saying is that every situation has it’s pro’s and con’s, and in every situation you must weigh out the good and the bad in order to make an educated decision. So, if you live in Taiwan, and you are familiar with the day to day life and everything it entails, then you are able to make the educated decision on whether it is worth staying or not. I read some of these posts (most actually) and it seems like people just want to complain about the things they don’t like. Well, there are two outcomes at the end of the day. 1) After everything is considered, you decided you would still rather be here than anywhere else, and you stayed. So why keep complaining about everything on a daily basis? or (2) After all is considered, you decide that all those things you hate about this country are not worth it, in which case you can decided to leave.
Again, the way in which you view the world is a product of you. You can choose to see all the negative, or you can choose to see all the positive. At the end of the day, your view will not change the world around you, it will just change the way you perceive it, so doesn’t it seem to benefit one’s self to view it in a positive light?
“Whether you think that you can or that you cannot, you are right”
There are only two types of people, those who say “I can’t” and those who say “I can”
In e understanding of most local people nationality and race are closely connected. i may be a ROC citizen, but since I am white I will always be seen as a foreigner, along the lines of ＂你看！那個外國人有身分證，好奇怪！！＂
2)Aside from the 2% Aboriginals, Taiwan has a very homogenous population of citizens and a white or black person will in 999 out of 1000 cases not be a citizen. Hence the requirement for an ID card number effectively discriminates all who are not ethnic Chinese residents of Taiwan or belong to the tiny minority of Aboriginals.
[quote=“biggyweiting”]If they are unintentionally excluding you because they don’t offer proper second language versions of “x” then again, that’s not them being racist, that is you needing to learn the language of the country you are in. [/b]
Language was never my concern. In fact my Chinese is good enough to get as far as entering an ID number.
A good way to find out whether an obstacle is worth complaining about is the following experiment:
“How would Taiwanese green card holders in the US react to this if it happened to them in the United States?”
Now imagine the outrage about Taiwanese green card holders not being able to purchase train tickets at the most common and convenient point of sale (because that’s what 711 is in Taiwan) for the simple reason that the driving license number issued to non-citizens has a different format and the system won’t accept it. Now imagine the outrage and ACLU as well as the 1,000,000 Asian-American/Chinese-American being all over it.
[quote=“biggyweiting”] Again, the way in which you view the world is a product of you. You can choose to see all the negative, or you can choose to see all the positive. At the end of the day, your view will not change the world around you, it will just changethe way you perceive it, so doesn’t it seem to benefit one’s self to view it in a positive light? [/b]
What’s so positive about not being able to purchase train tickets at 711? I can see how some banks are more reluctant to issue credit cards, but a simple cash transaction under 1000 NT$? Common.
[quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Chris”]Are there any Taiwanese websites that aren’t godawful?[/quote]
At least the OP’s link: http://railway.hinet.net/net_eng.htm is refreshingly free of flashing gifs, frames, ads and the other paraphernalia that are standard on other MIT pages.[/quote]
Yes, that’s disappointing.
But it does have the small Mario Bros-like figure on the left, which is a small consolation. Is he an official TWA mascot?
If not, I’d like to understand the thought process that went into including him on that banner.
[quote=“Nuit”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Chris”]Are there any Taiwanese websites that aren’t godawful?[/quote]
At least the OP’s link: http://railway.hinet.net/net_eng.htm is refreshingly free of flashing gifs, frames, ads and the other paraphernalia that are standard on other MIT pages.[/quote]
Yes, that’s disappointing.
But it does have the small Mario Bros-like figure on the left, which is a small consolation. Is he an official TWA mascot?
If not, I’d like to understand the thought process that went into including him on that banner.
[/quote]
If you look closely you can see a 中華電信 logo on the figure.
[quote=“biggyweiting”][quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“biggyweiting”]
3) Everyone is responsible for their own situation. The color of your skin is not a problem. You can’t read or speak Mandarin? That’s your fault, learn. You can read and speak? Great, then you must have a problem because you’re not a citizen? Then become a citizen. You are a citizen and you can also read and speak Mandarin? Well, then the problem you are facing with the crappy website is still not designed to single you out, it’s obviously just as crappy for everyone else. It’s only crappy for foreigners? Ok, then that means its just as crappy for foreigners of every race, not just your race.
The issue is that the iNon terminal does not accept ARC or passport numbers but only ROC-ID numbers. That is a very unnecessary limitation, especially considering this is about public transportation.
I suppose the most promising course of action would be suggesting the NIA to issue ARC/APRC numbers that start with one letter only.
Now that would be the argument against any claim of being a victim of structural discrimination. Just go back to your home country. If you have a job and your family in Taiwan it’s a different story. And where should this logic end? “If the foreigner had just stayed in his home country, I would not have hit his car and would not need to pay compensation. It’s the foreigner’s fault!”. This notion is quite similar to yours.
And yes it is backwards and racist to exclude non-citizens from booking a ticket and pay for it in cash at 7-11, a pillar of infrastructure in Taiwan. Not racist because 7-11 had in mind to exclude foreign nationals, but racist because the possibility that a foreign national ay a) be able to read Chinese and b) would like to use the train was not even anticipated. A foreign national is simply not part of the target demographic for something as basic as public transportation. Now that is racist as hell.[/quote]
I think you missed my point.
If they are excluding you intentionally, and it is because you are foreign, then no, it’s not racist, as your nationality has nothing to do with your race.
If they are unintentionally excluding you because they don’t offer proper second language versions of “x” then again, that’s not them being racist, that is you needing to learn the language of the country you are in.
Also, I am not saying that anyone who experiences a problem should just up and leave. What I am saying is that every situation has it’s pro’s and con’s, and in every situation you must weigh out the good and the bad in order to make an educated decision. So, if you live in Taiwan, and you are familiar with the day to day life and everything it entails, then you are able to make the educated decision on whether it is worth staying or not. I read some of these posts (most actually) and it seems like people just want to complain about the things they don’t like. Well, there are two outcomes at the end of the day. 1) After everything is considered, you decided you would still rather be here than anywhere else, and you stayed. So why keep complaining about everything on a daily basis? or (2) After all is considered, you decide that all those things you hate about this country are not worth it, in which case you can decided to leave.
Again, the way in which you view the world is a product of you. You can choose to see all the negative, or you can choose to see all the positive. At the end of the day, your view will not change the world around you, it will just change the way you perceive it, so doesn’t it seem to benefit one’s self to view it in a positive light?
“Whether you think that you can or that you cannot, you are right”
There are only two types of people, those who say “I can’t” and those who say “I can”[/quote]
I think you don’t have a clue what you are talking about, this ID number problem has been ongoing for over a decade, and it is a real pain in the ass and dumb as shit.
TRA has never been an example of innovation. They are mostly composed of ex-military officers which is why their workers act like a bunch of assholes. It is a very conservative and old-fashioned organization so it shouldn’t be a surprise that their websites are too.
I guess what I am saying is, things could be much, much worse. The environment you are in, every advantage, every disadvantage, every single detail, is a direct reflection of the choices you have made, and you have the power to change it how you see fit.
Of course if Taiwan is just such a racist, backwards, corrupt, incompetent place, then you could always… leave?
Just my two cents. I know the “tone” of a conversation can be lost in translation when reading it in text form, but I mean no disrespect to you at all, just trying to illustrate my view on the situation. I hope it works out for you, and I hope you have a safe trip.[/quote]
Didnt read it all, too long and stupid. But the end was especially stupid, “want to complain? then leave?” How cliche and moronic. Gotto ask, are you dumb, trolling, or both?
I think biggy is a little confused about what a mass transport system is supposed to accomplish. In addition to moving the natives, it also functions to carry residents, and visitors/tourists. Given the importance of the latter to the Taiwanese economy it is useful for the system to be able to easily handle all manner of transactions: as for example does the MRT, the KMRT and the HSR.
I can assure biggy, that Forumosans are not the only people complaining about this. So are other government agencies. Should they also learn a zen-like acceptance of the TRA? Should they also go home?
The booking system is clumsy, stupid and harmful to both the reputation of Taiwan as a modern country and to its efforts to attract foreign talent and tourists. There is no reason in the world, besides a misguided notion of accepting all the vagaries of life, to not complain about it.
So anyway, I have written to my contacts at Tourism and they agree the system is bad. They will recommend changes but as some posters have mentioned, the TRA is a dinosaur of an agency and will take a while to change.
Meanwhile, the best thing to do is anytime you have to go to pick up tickets complain directly at the information booth next to the counters.
Taiwan has made massive improvements over the past 15 years and there’s no reason it won’t continue to improve. Sometimes a little push is needed though.
I don’t even take the train because TRA staff are assholes… Deutsche Bahn staff is a lot nicer and they’re not considered to be the nicest of people… I rather take the bus because the staff is nicer and the accommodation is nicer too, not to mention cheaper. However the drivers are overworked and it can be slow because at least to Taichung they have to stop at this weird location, then go to Taichung city which takes an hour just going around Taichung… If you’re in a real rush take the high speed rail…
[quote=“Mucha Man”]So anyway, I have written to my contacts at Tourism and they agree the system is bad. They will recommend changes but as some posters have mentioned, the TRA is a dinosaur of an agency and will take a while to change.
Meanwhile, the best thing to do is anytime you have to go to pick up tickets complain directly at the information booth next to the counters.
Taiwan has made massive improvements over the past 15 years and there’s no reason it won’t continue to improve. Sometimes a little push is needed though.[/quote]
Would be a great start if 7-11 changes the software on their iBon machine so that people without ROC ID cards can book tickets as well.
By now even CPC can issue co-branded credit cards to foreigners - on their old form it was impossible to enter anything but a ROC ID number. People complained and they changed. CPC is a state owned company - I would assume 7-11 could be a little more flexible in this regard when approached with the issue.
Never experienced that, and I speak as someone who’s taken at least two TRA trains per week for the last decade. I was on a TRA express yesterday evening coming back from Taichung and the ticket inspector was most friendly/helpful (I had to upgrade my ticket), and then responded courtesously to a local who said the AC was too cold.
But the website is terrible, and not at all smartphone-friendly. But why should it be? It’s not like people might want to search train times using a smartphone, say, in the back of a taxi? (I tried to do that yesterday afternoon).
Long-distance buses are comfortable and a bargain in Taiwan, I agree.
