Tama Talum given presidential pardon for illegal hunting

My question is, why was he convicted of killing “protected species” when the two animals he killed aren’t particularly rare or endangered?

According to TT:

“he shot a Reeves’ muntjac and a Formosan serow with a modified rifle.”

Both are listed on Wikipedia as “least concern”, i.e., so totally not threatened that even the radical animal rights wackos can’t get them considered to be at risk, except of course by government diktat.

Although, they are seeeeeriously cute. But so are bunnies and squirrels and hardly anyone throws a snit when they’re whacked.

Also, what counts as a “traditional firearm”? A couple of articles talk about how dangerous old muzzleloading firearms can be; can’t they just 3D-print a stock, and use a piece of pipe from the hardware store for the barrel? And I thought air rifles were allowed?


Tama Talum’s case is infamous. Maybe a superinformed forumosan like @hansioux could share some details why.

Still count me impressed by Tsai’s political savvy here. Things are crashing around her (with the COVID crisis, the power outages, etc) and she pulls this rabbit out of the hat.

Good for her for doing the right thing.



I get that the KMT is going to bash her and the DPP for these things, running the same playbook the Dems did against Trump, but the reality is that she has zero control over some random Taipower employee screwing up a power plant, nor against CAL’s pilots sneezing on people.

The government did the smartest thing in the world by shutting down travel from China on January 1 2020, just like Trump as soon as the news of the spread reached him, and the only people who called them racist for doing so were the KMT and the Democrats.

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Uh this thread—which you started!—is not about US politics. :slightly_smiling_face:



Ahem. Most Taiwanese would disagree with you. :rofl:

It’s called a comparison. :slight_smile:

Doesn’t change anything. @OliviaLinToo is right.

Guys. Open a new topic if you wanna debate the US comparisons.

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I would have rather seen her quarantine airline workers like everyone else.

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I am sure Tama Talum and his supporters warmly appreciate your either/or and zero sum approach to his unjust (but under ROC law, legal) conviction.


Its a funny case. Tsai is clearly just cashing in chips on the mostly Chinese KMT loyal aboriginal population.

Not that i hate hunting of common species, i actually prefer it to factory farming; however, i find it hard to swallow when people claim traditional narratives while using rifles. Sorry folks, rifles just arent taiwans traditional invention, stop falling for this excuse. 3.5 years seems excessive. That said the mass ravaging.of the mountains by people really does need to stop and be far more closely monitored. It will likely take a death or 2 of accidental hunting accidents to get anyone to care. Vit is actually a shit show up in the hills. If we are makig us comparisons. Its like drunken hillbilly on boat in alabama using shotguns to shoot gators at midnight. Trade boats for scooters, shotguns for powder rifles, hillbilly for hillbilly, gators for anything that moves and midnight for 24/7 and we got a taiwan comparison.

The mountian rat situation isnt racial though, and should never be allowed to become racial.

How far back in history does a group’s use of such weapons have to go in order for their use of them to be considered a group tradition?

Under Liu Ming-ch’uan, late nineteenth century:

Robert Gardella, “From Treaty Ports to Provincial Status, 1860-1894,” in Taiwan: A New History, Murray A. Rubinstein, ed., p. 191

Also late nineteenth century:

James Wheeler Davidson, The Isle of Formosa, Past and Present . . . , p. 169

In the late eighteenth century the Chinese military leader Fu Kang-an organized some aborigines into military colonies. Part of this plan is explained as follows:

John Robert Shepherd, Statecraft and Political Economy on the Taiwan Frontier, 1600-1800, p. 337

In my understanding, fowling piece means shotgun.

Some old pictures: 1863, 1875, 1887

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The handmade weapons mandated by ROC law are dangerous AF. They can harm the user as well as people around them.


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If we want to use those timelines, then the Han people are also a traditional group of taiwan.

The double standard is annoying to say the least.

Maybe someone already mentioned all this, but basically it boils down to should the Aboriginal peoples have more special treatment over gun rights and gun ownership.

Tama Talum found a 12 gauge breech-loading shutgun on a river bed, July of 2013. Taiwan’s current laws allow Aboriginal peoples to use muzzle-loading rifle to hunt, and recognize it as tradition.

He used the rifle he found and killed a muntjac and a serow that August because his mother wanted to have some traditional game meat in her poor health.

He was sentenced to 3 years and 2 months for owning that rifle, and 7 months for hunting protected animals.

The Justices of Constitutional Court ruled that most of the laws are constitutional, but portions of The Regulations Governing Permission and Management of Guns, Ammunition, Knives and Weapons act and The Regulations Governing Permission and Management of Indigenous Traditional Cultural and Ritualistic Hunting, Killing, and Usage of Wildlife act are unconstitutional.

In short, the ruling still consider Tama Talum owning and using the breech loading rifle illegal, however, despite the protected nature of the animals he hunted, since it was for private consumption due to cultural reasons, that part should be legal.

President Tsai’s pardon basically absolves Tama Talum’s charges of owning and using the rifle illegally. This pardon marks the 7th pardon since enacting the constitution.

However, many Indigenous activists wanted more than that. They wanted it to be legal for the Indigenous peoples to own breech-loading rifles as well. Their reason is that hunting rifles are all breech-loading now, and limiting Indigenous hunters to only use muzzle-loading rifles means they would have to build new rifles themselves which ends up being incredibly accident prone, resulting in needless loss of lives.

This pardon absolutely doesn’t address the demand to legalize breech-loading hunting rifles.


Laws need to be passed by the Legislative Yuan; they are not made by the President.

So will the LY act, or continue to idly sit by?


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Likely sit idly by. Aboriginal voters continuously vote for the colonists, despite not being in their best interests as the colonists don’t even do anything for them, giving the localists little reason to propose policies in their favour.


If the Aboriginal people are hunting for food and maintaining a traditional lifestyle they should be allowed to modernize weaponry somewhat…
The best way to regulate this would to have quota on the number of animals allowed taken as they do in the United States or other places.

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It would be ideal. However currently the reality is that lab synthesized chemicals (rather than teas brewed from plants), batteries, guns and scooters are all not traditional hunting tools. No matter how one tries to swing It.

Its fine to protect traditional rights of food gathering, but is insane to allow the use of modern, non traditional, tools to go open season on the wildlife. Especially in cases of conservation, which should absolutely trump traditional hunting laws. In this case, it seems to. me the pardon is a political move, not a moral one as he broke the law twice.

I am against the use of guns her as they arent traditinal and as of yet i. have seen next to zero safety protocols being used by traditional hunters, and i have hunted with them. Its aCluster fuck that seems like a messy game of poker in in taipei.

People have rights, sure. But conservation trumps hunting rights, or they should. These lack lustre laws and/or enforcement have led to numerous species becoming of extirpated here. A what point is protecting a fake culture (ie. Not traditional) more important than an entire species survival?

I get this isnt going to be a popular opinion, but its good to step back and not just be all for anything a first peoples said. Sometimes they just need to stop killing shit too…the aboriginals in Taiwan, as with every race in taiwan, are in no way stewards of the environment…

What exactly are the rules for that? In the modern 3D printing gun world, it would be easy to make a really cool muzzle loader with any of the old-timey actions. Matchlock would be easy – just use a Bic lighter’s friction wheel and sparker. Modern steel pipe for the barrel is plenty strong for black powder. All you need is a hole through the breechplug and a little shelf for powder behind it.

If they’re allowed percussion caps like from the mid-1800s then it’s no problem either, although they’d need to machine the plug in the back of the pipe to accept it.