A Summary of Last Two Months
Without actually reading your post, I’d have to say I agree. Tapes are extremely useful and extremely underused. People don’t seem to realize how much they can learn simply by listening.
The recorder is a new thing so it takes some time for the teachers to learn to use it.
The only two points I have to make about your first post are these:
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I disagree that “tapes take the place of a language teacher”. Recorded stuff is definitely a great tool, and I agree with that part, but they’re even more effective when they are used with a human teacher rather than taking the place of one. Recorded stuff has the advantages of convenience and unlimited patience for repetitions, but a human teacher can give feedback. Combine the two and you’ve got an even more effective setup than the either/or option.
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Any reason for the irrelevant mention of the professor also being a PLA general? Doesn’t seem to have any point other than “Rah rah PLA!” to me.
Long live Zhong Dao Long! It’s true tape recorders are a very new thing and it will take time for western people to get used to using them. Why, I myself only discovered the tape recorder some fifteen years ago when I attempted to learn Spanish using the now famous “First listen, then repeat” method.
lol…Shengmar thinks he is on the cutting edge of language instruction.
I’ve been using my ipod for chinese learning for the past 2 years and have never heard of your professor. Recorded material can be very useful but to suggest that it replaces the need for a human teacher is ridiculous. A recording cannot identify errors and weaknesses for a start…
What I have been doing for the last few years is get my students to bring a tape recorder to class. That way they get a chance to get a real live feed back producing teacher and a way to review the material and hear themselves speak all in one go. In fact the goal of my classes is to produce a good tape. Good tape = good class. Good class = good tape. The notes we take of course support the recording. This absolutely does work like a charm. If I had more time for language exchanges I would definitely record whatever I thought was worth, well, recording. I suspect this would be quite a lot.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]The only two points I have to make about your first post are these:
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I disagree that “tapes take the place of a language teacher”. Recorded stuff is definitely a great tool, and I agree with that part, but they’re even more effective when they are used with a human teacher rather than taking the place of one. Recorded stuff has the advantages of convenience and unlimited patience for repetitions, but a human teacher can give feedback. Combine the two and you’ve got an even more effective setup than the either/or option.
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Any reason for the irrelevant mention of the professor also being a PLA general? Doesn’t seem to have any point other than “Rah rah PLA!” to me.[/quote]
I just tell the fact. This old man is really hardworking.
If you like, you can google 钟道隆
After you read his biography, you will admire his invention of the recorder with the memory chip more.
says recorder is extremely useful but also extremely underused.
Quite a few language teachers still don’t know how to use recorders to better their teaching. Not to mention the new recorder. 复读机。
If you google 复读机， you will better understand what I mean.
As useful an invention as it is, it’s also pointless. We had tape recorders in my highschool classes (pre-1996) that could to A-B looping that serves the same purpose.
And these days tapes are obsolete. A-B scheduled looping and even division of spoken materials at the sentential level through MP3s are both mindbogglingly simple and don’t need specialized equipment.
And Shengmar, I didn’t say anything about him not being hardworking, I just want to know why you feel it’s necessary to inform us that he’s a PLA general.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]As useful an invention as it is, it’s also pointless. We had tape recorders in my highschool classes (pre-1996) that could to A-B looping that serves the same purpose.
And these days tapes are obsolete. A-B scheduled looping and even division of spoken materials at the sentential level through MP3s are both mindbogglingly simple and don’t need specialized equipment.
And Shengmar, I didn’t say anything about him not being hardworking, I just want to know why you feel it’s necessary to inform us that he’s a PLA general.[/quote]
The tape recorders you had in you highschool classes (pre-1996) that could to A-B looping can’t serve the same purpose.
The Zhong Daolong recorder with the memory chip allows a cassette recorder to replay the "division of spoken materials at the sentential level " and even at the word level, which is very helpful in teaching languages. That saves people from learning the misguiding pinyin on the textbooks.
The reason why I feel it’s necessary to say that he’s a PLA general is that according to our Chinese customs, when you mention a person of great respect, you address him with the highest official title that he has had.
Yeah that’s true. My students don’t use tape recorders much anymore. They bring these cigarette lighter size recorder jobs that they can use to break the class into segments. I didn’t know they had a DVD style A/B loop function but I am indeed pleased to find out. Next.
Why can’t you guys just say sentence level instead of sentential level. At first I thought you were talking about sentient beings being more sentimental or something…
Some of my students are just doing so.
And also the recorder with the memory chip can help a lot.
Bob, not all hardware MP3 players/recorders have an A-B loop function, but software ones often do, or can be extended to.
And Shengmar, as useful as this recorder sounds, can you answer me this: why would anyone want to buy a new piece of equipment based on a near-obsolete, lower-grade medium (ie this tape recorder), when they’ve most likely already got a perfectly capable piece of equipment capable of doing the same job with a higher-grade medium (MP3-based on computer/MP3 player)? I’m honestly curious here, because that could be the biggest issue with widespread adoption, and if this machine is as good as it has the potential to be, issues that get in the way of that should be addressed.
I just want to say adults do not learn language the same way as children do. In most situations, adults do not have the capability to automatically learn a language just by hearing it, particularly if they are not immersed in the language and it is not essential for survival. (If there is recent, substantial evidence to suggest otherwise, I would like to see it.) This is why the ‘listen first’ camp is, well, a bit misled, in my opinion, although I realize there are certain mainstream L2 theorists who are aggressive in pushing for massive aural input at early stages. But even that is accompanied by other instructional material, so it’s not absolute.
Then again, if you want to find absolutism in this type of ‘Cassette training’ then you certainly will, for I can almost guarantee you that for every half-baked idea under the bright blue sky, there is another half-baked idea which is its polar opposite. All it takes is someone with a bit of ‘background’ or ‘research,’ etc with a gift of the gab to turn a lot of people into believers. BUT what you must be careful about is not insisting that your particular notion is THE be all and end all way, unless you’re prepared to battle some serious criticism. This is particularly true after only a few months on the job…
Because the Zhong Daolong recorder is cheaper and easier to use.
I think using it wisely is a great breakthrough in language teaching.
More listening via that recorder will mean less pinyin training and more productivity.
Pinyin training, as well as constant feedback from the native speaker, are critical in developing proper prounciation. Musicians have highly developed aural skills and should not be compared with average students.
However, I do agree that repeated listening at the early stages of Mandarin learning are important, but the primary source should be the teacher. You can watch his/her face and see the subtle movements that accompany different sounds. Also, the teacher can immediately correct student errors, before bad habits are formed.
The first few weeks of a Chinese class could well be the most important, and it’s reckless, I think, to rely on technology for the task. Want to do so later? Fine. But not at the very beginning, unless a human being is there as well, offering input and a physical example, and not just pressing play.
Shengmar isn’t a Chinese teacher. He’s a walking advertisement for the Zhong Daolong recorder. He carries three or four with him at all times and has a sandwich board that he wears, even when he’s sleeping, that says, “BUY THE ZHONG DAOLONG RECORDER. GOOGLE IT IF YOU WANT. IT IS THE VERY BEST PERFECT QUALITY RECORDER IN EXISTENCE.” He has Tupperware-ish parties about the Zhong Daolong recorder with all of his students on a daily basis. He asks that they each bring at least two friends or family members each to every session, and it is rumored that he’s looking into developing a Zhong Daolong recorder-related product line, including sports shoes, t-shirts, and underwear.
There may well be arguements against every method but I can’t imagine the arguements against how I am doing it now would be any too convincing. First of all I am not dealing with absolute beginners ever. Second I instruct my students to bring me “their” problems and the vocabulary that “they” want to work on. What they take from the class is notes (mostly in the form of mind maps that create loads of assosiations) and a recording of conversation and explanations related to either things that they have actually experienced and/or things that they actually have an interest in. Absolute perfection may not be attainable but I have been nipping at it’s heels recently.