Taxes, are they morally wrong?


#64

No, it’s tax on the value added. It’s like a more honest capital gains tax.


#65

Most?

And I was talking about progressive income tax being a penalty for being productive.


#66

They are not productive, most them have money that makes money.


#67

investing money is not productive?


#68

No! Or yes, it’s not productive!


#69

But it is when the gov takes the money and invest it for you?

And how does one make capital gains if it wasn’t productive?


#70

If most money is concentrated in a few ‘pockets’ and no taxes are paid than there is less money for public projects. Meaning less work, less jobs. Simple actually.
And no, not everyone can achieve the ‘American’ or whatever dream.

Productive means making something, creating jobs. Playing the stock market or putting your money in a bank to get interest doesn’t create much of any jobs.
And BTW, most money doesn’t even exist. It’s money in the clouds.


#71

What does this have to do with anything. It’s like saying technically the money we have is worth nothing as fiat money. I don’t see how it’s relevant.

Last time I check banks are in the business of handing out loans? I have a idea, ask the bank for a loan. Use that idea to start a company, I create jobs and or good and services people benefit from.

allowing businesses to raise capital is not productive?

I can agree someone who purely plays the market isn’t doing as much good overall than a person who invested in a start up. But it’s not like they provide zero benefit.

You haven’t answered my question about if it’s productive if the gov takes your money and invest it.


#72

Well yes, it’s productive, Where do you think roads where people drive their cars on comes from, sewers where people flush down their shit, airports, railroads, bridges? Helping people get better lives by investing in better healthcare, schools, SOCIAL programs (not socialism).


#73

Always?


#74

Everything has it’s flaws, even you and I!


#75

So no. There’s a lot of waste and political interests can mess things up. The point is not we shouldn’t have soical programs and such. But we shouldn’t penalize people more for expending their wealth and certainly not penalize them more for investing that wealth that can often time be more beneficial than the gov getting their hands on it.


#76

What’s the point of having a zillion dollars that doesn’t contribute to society? How many yachts someone needs,how many cars?


#77

Does it matter? its their money. You can’t take it away cause “you have enough already”.


#78

Is the zillion dollars being stuffed in mattresses and shoe boxes?

You tell me, I say leave it up to the individual. Sounds like you’re saying that choice shouldn’t be left to the individual.


#79

Nothing always works.

When businesses fail, noboby says “well capitalist free enterprise must be a failure then”. They say ‘that business failed’.

But if government initiatives fail, a certain segment of our population thinks government itself is the problem, while ignoring the fact that there are lots of successful government initiatives.

It’s not all black and white.


#80

I can think of 2 things:
1- Because he can afford it. Sure, we would like everyone to pay more but not everyone can afford it. If I go back to the investment analogy, the more profitable the company the higher percentage paid in dividends and buybacks. You don’t make a company that barely breaks even pay dividends.
2- He obviously benefits more from the infrastructure as well e.g. free education gives him easier access to skilled labor. In other words, he also indirectly benefits from his workers share of government spending.


#81
  1. If i steal 1 dollar from elon musk because he can afford it. Is it justified?
  2. So does everyone else, why not pay the same rate?

#82

This is the basic principle of wealth redistribution. Your use of the term ‘steal’ obfuscates the matter because you’re presupposing moral wrong in your question’s terminology.

Because. He has. More money.


#83

Ok, I take 1 dollar from elon musk. Morally ok because he has more money and can afford it?

It’s amusing to see people use this logic like they’re entitled to someone’s money because they have more and can afford it from their perspective. Moral compass all fucked up.