Teacher talking about personal issues in class

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

I’m a TW student who learns English in a cram school. My English teacher is going to start his new business, so the issue is mentioned a lot in our classes recently. However, I think it’s been mentioned too much. One day our 90-minute class should be started at 10:30 a.m., but my teacher talked about his new plan with 2 interested students( there were 10 students) for 40minutes. The rest of us said nothing during the period of time. Some just read their own books which were used as material; some just listened to the 3 persons’ conversation.

I asked to myself: why did I run through traffic lights in order to arrive here on time? I should not show up until 11:10 exactly. I also thought anything could be the topic as a warm-up, but 40 minutes was too long, especially it was all about the teacher’s personal issue. On the other hand, I understand the case might be caused by the 2 enthusastic students, because they eagered to share their opinions. As a professional teacher, he should convert the situation, shouldn’t he?

2

[quote=“maxxam”]I’m a TW student who learns English in a cram school. My English teacher is going to start his new business, so the issue is mentioned a lot in our classes recently. However, I think it’s been mentioned too much. One day our 90-minute class should be started at 10:30 a.m., but my teacher talked about his new plan with 2 interested students( there were 10 students) for 40minutes. The rest of us said nothing during the period of time. Some just read their own books which were used as material; some just listened to the 3 persons’ conversation.

I asked to myself: why did I run through traffic lights in order to arrive here on time? I should not show up until 11:10 exactly. I also thought anything could be the topic as a warm-up, but 40 minutes was too long, especially it was all about the teacher’s personal issue. On the other hand, I understand the case might be caused by the 2 enthusastic students, because they eagered to share their opinions. As a professional teacher, he should convert the situation, shouldn’t he?[/quote]

That depends my friend. First of all, thank you for posting your situation. The way you describe it, it sounds quite unprofessional, but not for the reasons you are thinking. Mind you, this is just my opinion. You are a consumer of a service with some dissatisfaction at said service, correct? If you feel that what was sold to you is not what you are getting, then you need to let the vendor know something is wrong. Understanding the relationship between you and the product is very important. In this case, you believe the product is the teacher. In fact, it is the right to ask the teacher as many questions as you can during the time allotted you. If the class is costing you 500NT and you ask 2 questions, you’ve paid 250NT per question. The more you ask, the more you save.

Did you, at any time during that 40 minutes, ask the “teacher” a single question? Tell you what. Write out 90 questions and ask them all to you teacher. 1 per minute.

That said, the responsibility of providing the service to your satisfaction is not yours. Unfortunately, that is the big scam that runs rampant thru that industry. The laobans have you believing you are “students” and they are providing “teachers”. This is not the case at all and again, comes down to understanding your relationship with the product. Or more specifically, defining the product more distinctly.

3

Sure, it’s unprofessional. It’s also incredibly rude of your classmates to keep him talking for so long.

The normal solution is to simply say “hey guys, are we going to start the class now or what?”.

Failing that, walk out and leave. Ask for your money back from the Lao Ban on the way out. Good luck with that though. As Toe Save says, the business model for most english-language schools is this:

  • School hires random foreign person with white face.
  • Students pay lots of money.
  • and … well, that’s about it really.

OTOH, a real-life discussion might be more useful than a formal class, at your level (your english is very good, apart from the new verb “to eager” and unorthodox use of “convert” :wink: ). It’s possible the teacher thought it would be an interesting break from verb declensions and whatnot. Business plans seem to be a common topic of conversation, so although it was a personal matter, he might have thought others would be interested. But yes, 40mins is obviously too long.

Don’t do that. You will either get killed by a fat ugly guy in an SUV, or you will get beaten up by an irate foreigner who HATES seeing scooters run red lights. Even if the teacher is actually teaching something, who cares if you’re five minutes late? Better than being six months late while you recover in the trauma ward.

4

How about you convert the situation rather than him? Most students seem content to just sit there and be angry rather than inject themselves into a conversation they could be having that uses and sharpens their English ability rather than posting on a website about how you felt it was unfair.

You’re not a baby, HTFU and make the situation work for you or go to another class.

5

Can we native speakers not use “convert the situation”, which is not standard English usage, at least? The OP has missed out on an entire class period. Why compound the problem?

“Should the teacher have taken control of the situation?”

And I can easily imagine that students in Taiwan might feel the right thing to do was to say nothing. After all, the teacher is speaking to someone.

6

Agreed, he shouldn’t have gone on that long, but the students should have said something. I won’t accept the “culture” card on this one as the reason students sit there like zombies and just let the situation degrade. You aren’t happy? Say something about it.

7

[quote=“finley”] As Toe Save says, the business model for most english-language schools is this:

  • School hires random foreign person with white face.
  • Students pay lots of money.
  • and … well, that’s about it really.
    [/quote]

Thanks for your jaded and cynical denigration of mine and other English teachers attempts at making a living in Taiwan.

That business model might work for some kindergarten and children’s schools, and more in the past than now.

I don’t think adult consumers would accept ‘random foreign person with white face’. As the OP suggests, a certain amount of professionalism is expected.

I’ve never seen a random white face in the adult language school I work at, and the students are very exacting.

Perhaps I could convert Maxxam to change schools. Business is business.

8

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”]Thanks for your jaded and cynical denigration of mine and other English teachers attempts at making a living in Taiwan.
That business model might work for some kindergarten and children’s schools, and more in the past than now.
[/quote]
It was a throwaway comment aimed not at the teachers, nor the entire industry, but at certain bosses who take the attitude that “there’s one born every minute” (and it’s not all of them, I’m sure). That attitude is alive and well in other industries, mine included. And obviously if you are one of the real teachers/bosses/owners, the comment doesn’t apply to you :smiley:

Again, many do, and not just in English tuition. I am frequently astounded at the low quality that consumers will put up with, or that managers are quite happy to deliver - often because neither is aware that anything else is possible. But yes, I’m sure adult students are more discerning that the average buxiban parent. Still, the OP was actually prepared to sit and keep quiet while the teacher was messing around.

I’ve met plenty of good qualified teachers here. I’ve also met some complete wankers who have a good laugh about duping undemanding Taiwanese students/parents/bosses with fake degree certificates, by putting on a good show, or by simply being white (including one who admitted to being dyslexic). I guess if you’re one of the qualified ones, you’re more likely to end up in one of the better schools. Sample bias. :idunno:

9

[quote=“finley”]
I’ve met plenty of good qualified teachers here. I’ve also met some complete wankers who have a good laugh about duping undemanding Taiwanese students/parents/bosses with fake degree certificates, by putting on a good show, or by simply being white (including one who admitted to being dyslexic). I guess if you’re one of the qualified ones, you’re more likely to end up in one of the better schools. Sample bias. :idunno:[/quote]

I agree, but I don’t think that type would work in an adult school. On the other hand, I’ve heard some adult English schools pay very poorly. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

10

To say something…
In another class the teacher did the similiar thing. He had a long free chat with few students. As soon as a student who did not involve in that conversation directly told him: you should move back to books because it’s my right as a consumer here, everyone in the classroom was embarrassed. After the class the teacher said ‘I will kick the student off if it happens again.’
I know to say something is a way to stop the degrading. I know I could express my opinion in a better way, too. But I won’t do that. I cowardly prefer to post here. I hope the teacher is one of the viewers of Forumosa. When he reads the abovementioned, he may think about his own teaching style.

11

Well, if being assertive as a student aka consumer of education services is a primarily Western idea to date, and the OP is not getting much out of his English classes, perhaps that particular aspect of Western culture hasn’t been talked about yet.

12

Maxxam,

You have the strong courage to post your question here thinking your English teacher might be reading here. You ran the risk of being recognized and getting kicked off of his class. As a Taiwanese myself, I can understand your dilemma. On one side, you would like to respect your teacher and others. On the other hand, you feel being treated unfairly. So, what would a westerner do in this situation? Please do not get discouraged by many foreign posters’ criticism toward you. Many are unnecessarily harsh and not really solving your issue.

Since you are learning English, understand the western way of handling the situation should also be part of the learning process. Simply learning how to write and pronounce the words properly is not enough. From my experience, once you reach certain proficiency in English, people (westerners) would simply assume that you will behavior at their level. Fighting for your own rights in a firm but non-confrontational manner is one major western attribute that takes many years for me to learn. Next time when you encounter this, I would suggest simply raise your hand with your index finger up, and say with a smile:

“Mr Smith, I have a quick question when you are done. Can you explain how ?”

If your English teacher has any sense of professionalism, he would stop and move on to the lessons. If not, he is not a good teacher for you to follow. You should find another teacher.

Your English is very good. I think you are at least at a graduate school level or even stayed in English speaking country for a while. You should aim for the next level and learn how westerners behave, ie their culture.

Good luck to you.

13

OP - your English level is too high to waste money on buxiban classes. Seriously! You just need to read loads and take every opportunity you can to speak with native English speakers. Stop wasting your money on buxiban classes.

14

I agree, don’t take any more classes, your English is great. Just read the books you had to buy for this class. Also, if this teacher is going to start his own business, he will probably stop teaching there.

15

I agree with everyone else. Your English is already better than several Taiwanese I know who are in grad school in the US. You just need more exposure, not more instruction. If you feel that you need to hire someone to get conversation practice, I think you’d be better off doing one-on-one once or twice a week rather than whatever arrangement you have now. It’ll be more per hour, but you’ll get much more out of it.

16

[quote=“fh2000”]Maxxam,

You have the strong courage to post your question here thinking your English teacher might be reading here. You ran the risk of being recognized and getting kicked off of his class. As a Taiwanese myself, I can understand your dilemma. On one side, you would like to respect your teacher and others. On the other hand, you feel being treated unfairly. So, what would a westerner do in this situation? Please do not get discouraged by many foreign posters’ criticism toward you. Many are unnecessarily harsh and not really solving your issue.

Since you are learning English, understand the western way of handling the situation should also be part of the learning process. Simply learning how to write and pronounce the words properly is not enough. From my experience, once you reach certain proficiency in English, people (westerners) would simply assume that you will behavior at their level. Fighting for your own rights in a firm but non-confrontational manner is one major western attribute that takes many years for me to learn. Next time when you encounter this, I would suggest simply raise your hand with your index finger up, and say with a smile:

“Mr Smith, I have a quick question when you are done. Can you explain how ?”

If your English teacher has any sense of professionalism, he would stop and move on to the lessons. If not, he is not a good teacher for you to follow. You should find another teacher.

Your English is very good. I think you are at least at a graduate school level or even stayed in English speaking country for a while. You should aim for the next level and learn how westerners behave, ie their culture.

Good luck to you.[/quote]

Excellent post. And you are right many people have been stupidly critical, forgetting what it’s like to be young and intimidated by the system.

To the OP. While it’s good you recognize your cowardliness, you must at some point decide if this is how you want to live your life. It’s not easy to stand up for yourself, not even for us westerners. Most of us don’t really get good at it till we are well into adulthood. But you have to start somewhere and build on the habit.

Anyway, it’s January 1st. No better day to set a resolution. :thumbsup:

17

I don’t know if this is most pertinent, but I give students a few minutes every week to hand me their suggestions for any further things that they’d like to do in the target language, which I support or reject for certain reasons. We use an Oxford Reader (or equivalent book) for the “main coursework” – the stuff on which I’ll make the tests, devise the grammar exercises, etc., but then there’s about a class a week that I give to the students. I’ve usually limited it to music under a few basic criteria and recommendations by me from a mostly WPM perspective. Some of them really want to watch an English YouTube video (think “Annoying Orange” or “MadTV”), and I’ll transcribe that for them, instead.

Some students have never suggested anything, so they zone out for a few minutes while I discuss it with the more enthused ones. However, I think that some of them have ideas, but would need to look up titles or names before they could just blurt them out. This week I’m making a “request box,” so kids can go home and write down the names of things that they thought were cool or interesting, and put it into a makeshift ballot box. That ought to save some of the time that I spend just asking the students directly.

Do any of your adult conversation classes have any systems like that in place?

18

[quote]Next time when you encounter this, I would suggest simply raise your hand with your index finger up, and say with a smile:

“Mr Smith, I have a quick question when you are done. Can you explain how ?”

If your English teacher has any sense of professionalism, he would stop and move on to the lessons. If not, he is not a good teacher for you to follow. You should find another teacher. [/quote]fh 2000

:discodance:

Polite, not angry, sensible. I agree. I think it is difficult to do it in the way a lot of us westerners here would. It takes guts. (Hey, but don’t let people walk all over you). Raising your hand makes sense as does asking a simple question. If he is a good teacher and just got excited one time I’d let it go. But not if this is typical.

19

Wondering about the other side here: if I were teaching a conversation class where it was like pulling teeth to make the students talk, and most days consisted of going through book exercises where students did the job but were generally unwilling to do much with any conversation topics, but then suddenly one day two students took an active interest in something and kept asking me questions about that topic - I’d run with it. Conversation classes aren’t about following the book; they’re about having conversations, and if conversations are going on independently of the book, then I’ll ignore the book (assuming I’m not teaching for a test). Of course, I would try to make sure that other students were also involved - I’d be asking them questions and trying to solicit their contributions. However, if the normal class is a dozen silent students, and then suddenly one day two students are active and ten remain silent, I’ll stick with whatever’s making two active - it’s better than the status quo.

Of course, I’m not saying this is what happened in the original class: I don’t know the details about that or what a normal class is like. The OP is certainly justified in trying to change the dynamic, but I can see myself in a classroom situation where a couple of students and I dominate the class for a time, especially if in one normally-silent class a couple of students suddenly became especially involved.

20

If the teacher has begun to ignore other members of the class to talk about their own pet issues then I would begin talking to the person next to me about something and start another conversation going in English. You have to consider the balance beyween being respectful to a stranger and wasting your time, money and energy on something that is not beneficial to you. I wouldn’t worry about bruising the ego of a Westerner, we don’t have the same rules. We bash each other in public all the time. We don’t grow up with the concept of face in the same way. Sure we feel vengeful, angry, ashamed, but usually we realise that we have brought this upon ourselves.

I really care little for the ego of my professor, I care that they can answer my question in a way that I trust. I respect the professor until the point that the professor shows that they are not respecting my learning goals. As an adult this should be your motivation when you are buying something. I wouldn’t give a car dealer my money and let them pick out my car and tell me what colour I should have. I want to exchange my tokens, which I gained through giving someone what they want, for something that I want. I’m not going to go and spend 8 hours doing something for someone and then go and allow someone else to determine what I do with the tokens I have recieved in return for my 8 hours.

Young people should be full of fight and vigour, not cautionary and abused. Prepare some conversation topics of your own for next time, or listen to the conversation and start asking questions. Be brave. Get stuck in. Also, learning rules about turn taking in conversation is a useful tool. If the teacher is being a tool then use them to your advantage.