…and having a job you semi enjoy makes a huge difference too. A depressing job often results in excessive partying or retail therapy :s
If you’re earning WAY more than anyone else doing similar work, your job is always going to be on the line.[/quote]
Wise words.
The largest single cost for schools is teachers’ salaries. And you better believe that they are looking for ways to either cut that cost or keep it under control.
There is no way I’m gonna pay someone 700NT an hour. Why? Because I can get someone to do it for 550NT.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying DB, but couldn’t a dedicated, passionate, professional teacher result in more clients? Would it not be worth your while as a businessman to reward this sales beacon with a litle fiduciary respect?
I hear what you are saying DB, but couldn’t a dedicated, passionate, professional teacher result in more clients? Would it not be worth your while as a businessman to reward this sales beacon with a litle fiduciary respect?[/quote]
Oh yes, I believe in rewards…but they don’t have to be financial ones.
I find that lots of hours and vacation time whenever you like works just as well.
I think it is important to note the hourly pay is dependent to where you live. A teacher can make more hourly in Taipei because he or she has to…the costs of living are higher there.
If the sales and marketing people can bring the students in, or even if the teacher can bring the students in over time, there are still limits to how many students you can put in a classroom. And if you have two people who can do the same job equally well then it makes sense to hire the cheaper one.
If a teacher is established here, has demonstrable experience and a reputation, then their worth can be negotiated. This is a small town, and in the adult teaching game everybody meets everybody sooner or later. The best jobs go to people who are recommended by their peers.
As a complete newbie with no contacts and no history you’re competing against every other newbie and quite a few oldies. You might get hired for a few classes at a high rate if you have something exceptional to bring to the table and the employer needs something exceptional. But the bulk of the work here is pretty standard and paid at pretty standard rates.
Of course, if you’re good at your job and good for business you may try negotiating bonuses, profit shares, or a new job. But that happens after you have proved yourself. If I was employing people right now I would invite AmericanTart for an interview, but my gut reaction to these posts is that she’s full of bullshit and won’t be able to deliver the goods.
If she could make herself appear more together at interview than she has now then I would consider giving her a class to see how she performs. And if she did good then she would be in a position to discuss improving her pay, but right now she’s just another wannabe.
…and having a job you semi enjoy makes a huge difference too. A depressing job often results in excessive partying or retail therapy :s
If you’re earning WAY more than anyone else doing similar work, your job is always going to be on the line.[/quote]
Wise words.
The largest single cost for schools is teachers’ salaries. And you better believe that they are looking for ways to either cut that cost or keep it under control.
There is no way I’m gonna pay someone 700NT an hour. Why? Because I can get someone to do it for 550NT.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying DB, but couldn’t a dedicated, passionate, professional teacher result in more clients? Would it not be worth your while as a businessman to reward this sales beacon with a litle fiduciary respect?[/quote]
I guess there are two trains of thought on this. If I was a business owner, I would certainly reward an employee that is generating business, but I tend to think the “ship them in, ship them out” mentality has resulted here because:
a)White faces are percieved as drawcards for customers, no matter how good they are (or not)
and b) Your average English teacher (at least many of the ones I’ve met) are not here for the ‘career’ or the ‘passion’ of teaching - they are here for a good time not a long time, wham bam thank you mam, student loan now payed for, bye bye.
I was at a party and I heard a guy on the phone to someone at home “Yeah man, come over. It’s reeeeeal easy money and you don’t have to give a shit about teaching man…just come…” :loco: = oversupply of teachers = lower standards = lower pay.
[quote=“truant”]I guess there are two trains of thought on this. If I was a business owner, I would certainly reward an employee that is generating business, but I tend to think the “ship them in, ship them out” mentality has resulted here because:
a)White faces are percieved as drawcards for customers, no matter how good they are (or not)
and b) Your average English teacher (at least many of the ones I’ve met) are not here for the ‘career’ or the ‘passion’ of teaching - they are here for a good time not a long time, wham bam thank you mam, student loan now payed for, bye bye.
I was at a party and I heard a guy on the phone to someone at home “Yeah man, come over. It’s reeeeeal easy money and you don’t have to give a shit about teaching man…just come…” :loco: = oversupply of teachers = lower standards = lower pay.[/quote]
Incorrect assumptions. It is this oversupply of teachers that is raising the quality of teaching. If someone is not on top of their game there is three or four waiting for the chance. How many times have schools had to keep a sub-standard teacher because they couldn’t find anybody to replace him or her? A lot. Lower standards being equated to lower pay is incorrect.
I don’t have a problem with people “using” Taiwan to meet their financial goals. If they spent a year here working to pay off their student loans then God bless 'em. You are right, most are not here for a career but I don’t see any reason to hold that against them.
Most of the teachers working for me are trying to pay off student loans or are not making teaching in Taiwan a career. But I would stack them up against any group of teachers, professional or not, anywhere anytime. Great group of people and I am fortunate and blessed to have them here.
[quote=“Durins Bane”]
Incorrect assumptions. It is this oversupply of teachers that is raising the quality of teaching. If someone is not on top of their game there is three or four waiting for the chance. How many times have schools had to keep a sub-standard teacher because they couldn’t find anybody to replace him or her? A lot. Lower standards being equated to lower pay is incorrect.
I don’t have a problem with people “using” Taiwan to meet their financial goals. If they spent a year here working to pay off their student loans then God bless 'em. You are right, most are not here for a career but I don’t see any reason to hold that against them.
Most of the teachers working for me are trying to pay off student loans or are not making teaching in Taiwan a career. But I would stack them up against any group of teachers, professional or not, anywhere anytime. Great group of people and I am fortunate and blessed to have them here.[/quote]
Quite right. I’m not a teacher btw, but it pisses me off when dedicated, passionate people in any industry get pushed out by fly by nighters who don’t give shit about anything but the $$$.
Perhaps an oversupply does raise quality, but it surely lowers pay? That’s a buyer’s market, and mostly only good for the business owner.
I agree with DB about an over supply of teachers leading to improved standards. Another fact to consider in the coming years is that there have been relatively few births in the last 2 years. The number of schools in Taiwan is set to radically reduce. I read recently that Kindergaartens (along with paediatricians) ( no i didnt check my spelling!) face almost total extinction in the next 5 years. Taiwan will become a harder place for the ‘drunkard’ to make any money, and there may be a larger wage split between newbies/ the inexperienced/ long timers/ the experienced.
The quality of teaching should then push itself upwards.
[quote=“truant”]
Quite right. I’m not a teacher btw, but it pisses me off when dedicated, passionate people in any industry get pushed out by fly by nighters who don’t give shit about anything but the $$$.
Perhaps an oversupply does raise quality, but it surely lowers pay? That’s a buyer’s market, and mostly only good for the business owner.[/quote]
I think that dedicated, passionate people who take teaching seriously are going to be just fine these days. I guess I am saying that because of the tight job market, only the dedicated, passionate people will thrive.
And, it is good for the school owners, I will admit that.
[quote=“TomHill”]I agree with DB about an over supply of teachers leading to improved standards. Another fact to consider in the coming years is that there have been relatively few births in the last 2 years. The number of schools in Taiwan is set to radically reduce. I read recently that Kindergaartens (along with paediatricians) ( no I didn’t check my spelling!) face almost total extinction in the next 5 years. Taiwan will become a harder place for the ‘drunkard’ to make any money, and there may be a larger wage split between newbies/ the inexperienced/ long timers/ the experienced.
The quality of teaching should then push itself upwards.[/quote]
Yes, I believe that there is going to be a real bloodletting in the ESL business in the next few years for the reasons you spelled out. Schools that are going to survive are the ones who prepare for Doomsday.
Right now I have three interesting offers/proposals I am considering concerning opening/working with schools. The days of opening up a school and automatically raking in the loot are over. I am now stepping very carefully and deliberately in terms of expanding. I would suggest that everybody, from the school owners to the publishing companies to the teachers to do the same.
One thing to consider about teaching at corporations is your ability to issue receipts. Of course, if you’re teaching an individual, receipts aren’t that important. But then again, there’s no way you’re going to be able to charge them an arm and a leg. If you want to teach the large classes, you are absolutely going to have to go through HR, and they won’t touch you with a ten foot pole unless:
a) They have some idea of what your programme is, and how results can be quantitatively measured
b) You have a reputation
c) They believe you to be better than the competition (I worked for a corporate English outfit for 9 years - you’d better believe that there’s some very professional competetion out there, charging the rates you’d like to charge, but with all kinds of resources behind their very experienced, very professional, very bilingual teachers.)
d)You are able to issue a receipt that they can use for tax purposes. If you aren’t a business, you’re out of luck.
[quote=“Maoman”]One thing to consider about teaching at corporations is your ability to issue receipts. Of course, if you’re teaching an individual, receipts aren’t that important. But then again, there’s no way you’re going to be able to charge them an arm and a leg. If you want to teach the large classes, you are absolutely going to have to go through HR, and they won’t touch you with a ten foot pole unless:
a) They have some idea of what your programme is, and how results can be quantitatively measured
b) You have a reputation
c) They believe you to be better than the competition (I worked for a corporate English outfit for 9 years - you’d better believe that there’s some very professional competetion out there, charging the rates you’d like to charge, but with all kinds of resources behind their very experienced, very professional, very bilingual teachers.)
d)You are able to issue a receipt that they can use for tax purposes. If you aren’t a business, you’re out of luck.
You might want to rethink your strategy.[/quote]
EXCELLENT ADVICE…I AM VERY GRATEFULL. I would have never known that about receipts…well, I assumed the competition part…I ABSOLUTELY WILL RETHINK MY STRATEGY NOW. Additionally I would like to say how pleased I am with today’s flood of replies that I consider mostly serious and insightfull…Really everything I had hoped to read in reply to my post. I eagerly await any other info you all would like to share. I am happy I posted, am and far less naive than I let on. Thank you all.
If the OP doesn’t yet know that a majority of the responses on this thread are coming from buxiban owners, maybe now is a good time to make that clear.
It disturbs me when a newbie (or oldie for that matter) comes in for an interview and makes all kinds of demands: housing, furnishings, scooter, and high pay on top of that, all based on his or her opinion that she/he is “The most qualified person I will interview for this teaching job,” yet is lacking in experience (or in the case of an oldie, proven experience).
I would hate to see the OP become another angry ugly foreigner after finding out the pie in the sky is being eaten seemingly by everyone else around him/her.
Maybe the excitment stems from this being the first(assumption) trip overseas. Keep positive. You CAN make good $$ here, but the way you plan to hardball the bosses into your demands is, in a word, laughable.
It won’t work for me, and I’m purty sure, the other owners in here might give you a shot, but after a month or so, if you can’t hold up your end o’ the bargain, you’ll be out of a job.
But ENGLISHTART you lack reputation in this neck of the woods…Therefore you will have to start at the bottom of the pile and work your way up. Just like the rest of us did.
[quote=“jdsmith”]If the OP doesn’t yet know that a majority of the responses on this thread are coming from buxiban owners, maybe now is a good time to make that clear.
It disturbs me when a newbie (or oldie for that matter) comes in for an interview and makes all kinds of demands: housing, furnishings, scooter, and high pay on top of that, all based on his or her opinion that she/he is “The most qualified person I will interview for this teaching job,” yet is lacking in experience (or in the case of an oldie, proven experience).
I would hate to see the OP become another angry ugly foreigner after finding out the pie in the sky is being eaten seemingly by everyone else around him/her.
Maybe the excitment stems from this being the first(assumption) trip overseas. Keep positive. You CAN make good $$ here, but the way you plan to hardball the bosses into your demands is, in a word, laughable.
It won’t work for me, and I’m purty sure, the other owners in here might give you a shot, but after a month or so, if you can’t hold up your end o’ the bargain, you’ll be out of a job.
Good luck.[/quote]
I could see they were owners, I also think you are under a false assumption that I will make DEMANDS…I ask what the pay is before I even set up an interview, if they pull some sh:t, I thank them happily and leave. I am all too aware of the whole business card and networking culture here and I never burn bridges or come off like an irrate american. I do however, carefully misrepresent myself online in order to illicit the kind of criticsm and guidance I deem CRITICAL…Give me a little more credit and you may be pleasantly suprised how I acquire and hold a job, that ordinarily a newbie could not. I have invented myself before and in various situations and I am aware of how to get what I want on a silver platter, and how to leave graciously when I see it’s not comming.
As a relative newbie in Taiwan (and teaching in general… I did one year in Korea prior to coming here). I’d like to add my 2 cents.
What folk like the OP need to remember as everyone else seems to be saying is that 650NT per hour is good. Damn good, if you consider what the locals here are earning. I don’t know for sure, but I understand anyone earning 55,000 a month is earning nearly double local wages.
The point made further up about managing your lifestyle is also important. I am a non drinker (as Hobbes and Fred Smith noted on my visit to the last HH), and I find I have more money here than I’ve ever had in my life, I still go out and pay off all my debts from back home.
Sorry to sound like your dad… but this place is not back home.
Or stay at the bottom, like most of us.