Teaching in Public Schools? Best/Worst aspects?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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Hi everyone! I am a state certified/national board certified teacher with an M.Ed. and I’m currently at a private American school, however, I am moving to Kaohsiung July 2014 and looking for jobs there. I have 12/13 years experience in the classroom (7 in US public schools, 4 at a European uni, and will have 2 full years at a private school here.)

It looks like I have the credentials to teach at a public school, but after a lot of research I can’t find many first hand accounts of what a typical school day would be in a public school setting here in Taiwan. I’m sure it will be different than my time in the states and at uni. And, as we all know, many school reviews and experiences posted on-line are negative.

:s Questions: Do other staff members, admin, parents and students take you seriously? I mean, are you valued and appreciated as a foreign teacher in public schools? I have only found one source from a teacher online that spoke about having 45 unruly kids aged 9-12 with little to no support from staff or parents. It seemed their class was seen as a joke, or study hall and no one even tried. I am not sure where this school was, but this was posted in 2004 on a personal blog. Maybe that teacher just sucked?? How are foreign teachers usually accepted in public schools?

What does a typical class period consist of, content wise? Do you usually have curriculum to follow? Do you typically have your own classroom or at least a quiet place to lesson plan?

If I have never taught at a public school and my Chinese is limited (I work at an American school right now, so there is a strict NO CHINESE policy, even for teachers. I don’t use it much…) could anyone suggest a specific age I should target? I’ve read that elementary should be avoided if you don’t speak Chinese. I’m not sure why. I have experience with teaching age 4 - 65! I like each age group, but I quite enjoy the energy and creative spirit of my Jr. High kids right now. The high school kids are often “too cool for school” but the younger kids have no shame. LOL What factors should I consider if given a choice between elem, middle, or high school?

I have been in touch with a few reps from Dewey, as it seems they have a monopoly on getting teachers placed in public schools in Kaohsiung. Are there options I am missing? Has anyone worked directly with the MOE? How do you start that process?

Finally, I do have uni experience and I haven’t given up on the idea of teaching at a uni again, but I don’t know where to start with getting a job at one. I’ve sent my CV to multiple places for over a year and heard squat. Same with the international schools. I don’t have IB experience, so… yeah.

I really don’t hate the idea of public school teaching. “I’m not in it for the income, but for the outcome.” I majored in anthro and rather like the idea of getting out of an American school for a while and getting more in touch with the culture of the kids and I am really excited about increasing my Chinese vocab.

Overall, I’d just like a real-life explanation of what I can expect in terms of public school culture and maybe the best and worst aspects of teaching public school here in Taiwan.

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I can’t really speak to teaching in public schools: I only did it for one semester, and that was over a decade ago. I had very little support or respect: there’s generally a stereotype here that foreign teachers are performers more than educators, and that their classes are a joke. In my university the first month of most courses is spent convincing the students that, yes, this is a real course; I can succeed with that in the university, but in a high school, where everyone knew my course didn’t matter at all, it was probably a lost cause.

On public schools: judging from other threads posted here over the years, well, you write “I’m not in it for the income, but for the outcome”: I doubt you’ll get either.

Try:

On classroom management.
Finding work with a public school.
Public schools.

Or search for posts written by “GuyInTaiwan”. He doesn’t seem to post much here now, but over the years he had lots of entertaining/bizarre/horrifying stories about public school teaching - mind you, I’m not sure if those stories came more from the fact that he was in a public school, or the fact that he was in Taidong.

EDIT: Search for posts by “housecat” as well. I believe she was teaching in Kaohsiung, and was generally more positive than GuyInTaiwan about the possibility that education could actually happen within a Taiwanese school.

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I’ve no idea about working in public schools, although I’d definitely go for somewhere like TAS if I were you.

Anyway, for universities you’re unlikely to get noticed by sending your cv. Even if they ask for it on their website. They have to either see you or, even better, have you recommended from someone they know. I believe it’s a cultural thing.

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Having a foreign teacher in the school is usually for parents’ sake; it’s a good draw to the school.

But the teaching methods here are quite different than in the West. They are very test-oriented, and it is usually a local English teacher that prepares them for the tests.

There may be some idea that having a foreign teacher over the long term could make the kid less shy about speaking. But considering the peer pressure of school, that is hard to achieve. Also, try getting kids to speak out in a class of 40!

I’d say you may well be treated very well but it is unlikely you’d be treated seriously in the sense you would expect to, i.e. an educator in charge of a class with goals and a plan.

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Don’t worry – this is no longer the case in the US either. :cry:

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I haven’t taught in the public schools but there is one thing that you will find incredibly frustrating. Skillwise there is an M distribution of students in your classes. You will have students that need to learn the ABC’s mixed in with students with several years of buxiban classes. For all of the faults of buxibans these students are WAY AHEAD of the rest. You basically end up with students that are so far behind that they can’t get caught up and students so far ahead that they don’t pay attention in class.

Another possibility to check out are the international school and American schools (possibly called bilingual schools). I think there is a full blown international school and several at varying levels (high level Taiwanese students but not fluent) but some/all classes are taught in English.

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Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate it and will look into older posts by GuyinTiawan. I know all about international schools and American schools here. I teach at one now, but I am moving to Kaohsiung. Of course I am applying to all the international schools there, but I am researching public schools as a back up because I only have AP experience, not IB experience. International schools are tricky jobs to land and I don’t really need info about those kinds of schools, just what to expect in public schools. Whatever happens, I’ll just keep on keeping on!! :slight_smile: Thanks again.

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I currently work at a public school in Tienzhong. It’s in the central part of Taiwan and more rural. I’m at an elementary school. I must say, I think I’ve been very lucky. My school is great.I get so much support and help, and everyone is really friendly here. I mainly teach the 5th and 6th graders, but also see the 1st to 4th graders, to a lesser extent. For the 5th and 6th graders, I teach things from their textbooks, but things that may be more practical to them, speaking wise. It is true what abacus said - in one class you will get a mix of students that have different levels of abilities regarding English. As I am more of the “conversation teacher” I am not expected to give tests or things like that. My biggest classes are about 30 students strong, but the way I’ve managed that is by putting them into smaller groups and focusing on lot of teamwork or group work, as it is almost impossible to do individual work in such a big class setting. It’s mainly the 6th graders that are so big. The 5th graders have been split into two groups and classes have only 15 students in them.

Even if it feels like there may be no concrete goals given to you by the school, for me I’ve just set a goal for myself - to get the kids to speak , and feel comfortable speaking and not being shy. There is slow , but steady progress. And I definitely am not entertaining them the whole time! I’ve always maintained an attitude of first finishing the work that needs to be done and then playing games, but games that are appropriate and enforces the point that is being taught. It has happened a few times that we didn’t do a game in class, and that is fine.

On a more personal note - I wouldn’t trust Dewey. I’ve tried working with them before and it felt like they were playing Russian roulette with my application. If school a wasn’t “interested” or so, the next school on the list was thrown at me. I got the feeling that Dewey is just not the best outfit to use for getting into a public school anymore. And they have somewhat of a reputation of skimming of teachers contracts ,etc. I worked through Teach Taiwan, and have had a fairly positive experience,but if they will be able to get you a job in Kaohsiung would maybe be more difficult. Also try to contact the MOE directly and see what happens. But still - be careful with agents. Even though I’ve had a fairly positive experience with Teach Taiwan, I don’t completely trust them.

Overall my experience in the public school has been good and I am quite happy with everything at the moment. If you have any more questions - please feel free to ask or pm me. Glad to be of assistance.

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Elementary school teaching vs junior high teaching is something completely different.
I don’t think there are any foreign high school teachers in public school, high school is for preparing for tests.

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Scarab mentioned one really good thing: You need to get them into group work and allow them to work as a group, especially giving answers together so the smart kids can cover the dumb kids.

You can also read Housecat’s thread about her time at Minsheng Elementary School in Changhua.

I’ve known a few and it really depends on your school because you’re Taiwanese coworkers hate you. Like burning sun hate, that you may get down to a grease fire if you’re lucky. You have to understand that they are on contracts and have absolutely no job security nor real chance of getting into an iron bowl position(about .1% who take the test do.)

Guyintaiwan got his position in Taidong by asking them directly otherwise you almost always have to go through an agent and Dewey has a less than stellar reputation. I only got my last pay from a job from them by telling the person who hired me after the job was withdrawn and then they blamed it on their accountant.

If you decide to come here, then decide on doing plays. Seriously, if you can get the kids to act and get on stage then almost everything else is easy and makes the school look great. Actual English ability means naught here. Otherwise plan on doing group work and realize you may only see a class 3-6 times a semester.

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I would not trust Dewey. Avoid English Village programs in public schools where possible.

12

hummm… Dewey seems more and more sketchy. I’m also trying to figure out how to work directly with the MOE by applying through TECO back home in the states. Ugh.

Fill in the blank challenge:
“The best way to land a public school job in Kaohsiung is to blank”

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[quote=“indigoamy”]hummm… Dewey seems more and more sketchy. I’m also trying to figure out how to work directly with the MOE by applying through TECO back home in the states. Ugh.

Fill in the blank challenge:
“The best way to land a public school job in Kaohsiung is to blank”[/quote]A lot of work for such a job. Are you sure?

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I’m sure I want to live and teach in Kaohsiung! I also want to be sure I have done all research I can before moving south. I can handle doing a little extra work to secure the right job for me. :slight_smile: I’m exploring all options and maybe helping others out who are interested, too.

15

keep a journal when you come, it’ll be illuminating.

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When I come?? I already live in Taiwan. Been here a while. I’ve just never taught in public schools.

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Bumping this old thread with some questions of my own.

My story: I’m a teacher in the US, fully credentialed. My degree is not in Education but I figure that’s okay. I spent some time in Taiwan years ago and I have a soft spot for the island, which is why I’m toying with the idea of jettisoning my career to come over and join the public system. I don’t actually think I’ll do it, but just in case…

  1. How much do you work in a public school? 8-4? 8-5? How many of those hours are spent teaching? Do you get breaks, or is it a grind?

  2. Do you get summer vacations? How long? If so, paid or not? I am under the impression that you have a vacation, but it’s not paid. GuyInTaiwan also posted some years ago that there only 10 days of vacation??!? Also, how long is CNY break?

  3. I’m under the impression that the teaching is fairly easy. Is this true or is someone always breathing down your neck for results?

  4. At some point, do you just get too old and they kick you out? Or can you keep working in the public system when you’re old?

  5. I have a Masters. Does that make me too expensive for them to hire me, or do they care? Also, if I were to work in the public system for several years, I would get more and more expensive. Would I eventually become too expensive for them to keep me around?

  6. Let’s say I hate the location, the admin, or just want to move for some reason. Is transferring done from school to school? (I’m not saying rural Taiwan would necessarily be an problem for me, and I’m aware that most of these jobs are rural.)

  7. I’m looking at the package (if you can call it that!) and it seems like you get around 65k/month. But what does that really mean per year? If you don’t earn for the full 12 months, and then tax is taken out of that, that’s starting to look really meager. I suppose you don’t get retirement?

  8. Any way to sidestep recruiters if I go hunting for this? Can’t I just apply directly to the MOE stateside, or is it more complicated? I’m in the states at the moment, obviously.

I know I am probably better off staying home and continuing my career, but I have been daydreaming about Taiwan lately. Doesn’t hurt to ask, right?

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I can’t answer many of the questions but taxes are really cheap here. Most of your salary would be taxed at 0-5%. A small deduction for health insurance. No retirement unless (in theory) you are married to a Taiwanese spouse.

I don’t know how public school teachers do it with the class sizes, low number of contact hours and the big distribution of skill levels. For the most part it is an M distribution where you have students with no buxiban help and they can’t keep up with the pace. And then there are the students that have studied at a buxiban for 2-3 years and know everything that you will teach them. Of course the material you are teaching is in the middle of the class skill level. I would find it very frustrating to teach this type of class but it’s probably easy.

My understanding is that contracts are for 12 months usually but they don’t give you summers off. There are office hours, summer camps, training/development to fill up your schedule.

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  1. Typically 8-5. Some schools might let you go at 4 if they’re cool. You’ll have up to 24 classes per week, so less than five a day, if you are reaching the maximum. It can often be less than that. You get at least an hour and ten minutes during lunch time. Most of the time when you don’t have class you are sitting on your ass and otherwise shirking.

  2. You get 10 paid vacation days plus up to 5 personal days and up to 9 sick days. Anything beyond that is unpaid. Contracts typically start August 1st and end July 31st. You can always start later in August and just have unpaid time off, but make sure you get at least a few days in August so you can get your full bonus. If you start in September and go through July then you’ll only get 11/12ths of your bonus money at the end. School starts September 1st, usually, so you’ll want to get in a few days ahead to prepare and you’ll collect a portion of pay for August too. About sick and personal leave, some schools (the cool ones) let teachers use their sick days as personal days or personal days as vacation days or sick days as vacation days. You can only take vacation time during winter and summer vacation. Winter vacation is usually January 20th and lasts 3 or 4 weeks depending on when CNY falls. If CNY falls at the end of the vacation period, then it’s a 4 week break. If it happens during that time, then it’s a 3 week break. You get CNY days off as national holidays you can attach your vacation days to those weeks and get 2 full weeks off without expending all your vacation days. The exact number of days off for CNY varies, depends on which day of the week it falls. I think 4-5 days off is typical, not including weekends. Summer vacation is July and August. A lot of schools will have you do “camp” classes in summer, and sometimes even in winter. This can be for one or two weeks. You’re usually free to use up your remaining sick, personal and vacation days at the end of summer, so budget those wisely throughout the year and get as much as you can out of them. Anyway, point is, up to 24 paid days off during the school year between personal, sick and vacation, plus national holidays. There are no national holidays during summer vacation (July and August). If you decide you want to get paid for all of August you can start August 1st but you will pretty much be sitting on your ass for 3-4 weeks, but getting paid for it. Or you can use your vacation days up front. Some programs will have you do an orientation in August. You’ll have to be there and you’ll get paid for that time.

  3. The teaching is easy in terms of work load and expectation. Nobody is really expecting you to accomplish much. Stay away from English Villages though. I don’t know if they are making any new ones, but I developed one from the start and it was a fucking nightmare. If you just want to take it easy and not really care, that’s the best approach to be honest. You’re not really going to accomplish anything or see measurable results. If you are serious about teaching you might find it intellectually difficult to deal with. Often very boring, tedious, repetitive, even Sisyphean.

  4. I’ve seen people who must be damn near 70 working in the public schools here. It’s not like Korea where they only want younger candidates and have an official cut off age of around 60 (never saw anyone close to 60 in the public schools in Korea though.) In Taiwan they are quite desperate to fill all their public school positions since they do such a poor job of recruiting for them and because of the requirement of needing a teaching license.

  5. I don’t think this will be an issue. They have a set national pay scale and teachers with a masters start at a higher level. Doesn’t matter what your degree is in. They actually seem to apprecaite and respect the masters degree and are usually happy to hire teachers with masters degrees. Again, they’ll just be happy that they found somebody. The money comes from the government and the government set the pay scale so they are the ones who will fork out the money and not the individual schools. You top out after 10 or 12 years, but I don’t know why anyone would want to work in the public schools here for anywhere near that long.

  6. Just quit and find another school. Doesn’t matter what the reason is. Other public school programs don’t seem to care what you did in your previous program and programs poach teachers from each other all the time. You can even use your quitting as leverage to make changes to get what you want sometimes. Just make sure you have enough money to get you by until you can find a new job. Not always a good move because you pretty much give up your bonus. Depends on how badly you need that money and how badly you want out of your current school.

  7. If you start from the beginning of the school year (late August early September) you’re essentially guaranteed pay for at least 11 months +. You will end on July 31st. You’ll probably do a summer camp for one or two weeks in July then use your remaining time off to get full pay for July. Same during winter. If you don’t have vacation days to use but don’t have classes to teach because there are no students, you are going to sit your ass in the school for the whole days. This is called desk warming. You go there, be present, do fuck all and collect full pay. Let me give you an example of a school year schedule and pay break down:

Start in late August. Desk warm/prepare/attend an orientation for about a week. Get paid for the proportion of August you worked.

Classes begin September 1st.

You work the entire semester until winter break begins in January. Let’s say winter break is 3 weeks long this year. You do one week of desk warming and then you have the other two weeks off because you have paid national holidays (CNY) and you added some of your vacation days to that and maybe even a sick day or two. You collect full pay for January and February.

Winter vacation is over and the second semester begins some time in February.

You work the entire second semester until the school year ends on June 30th. Then depending on the school schedule, there will probably be at least one week of summer camp in July. There might be half a week (or even a full week) before that begins. You can either desk warm, prepare or use your days off during that time. Then you do the camp and then whatever time you have left you should just burn through it all for the rest of July. Use up all those remaining sick, personal and vacation days. You get full pay for July.

The new contract could begin as soon as August 1st. You can either use your new vacation days upfront from then or choose to take unpaid time off and start the new contract later in August, or you can choose to desk warm and get full pay.

Sometimes if the school is cool they’ll just let you have days off free and clear or only make you come in for half the day on your desk warming days.

End result is that you can get paid for the full year, but it will result in some desk warming. However, it’s quite easy to get a little bit more than 11 months of pay for the year and make full use of your time off. Up to you how much desk warming you’re willing to do during summer and how much you value having free time over earning full pay.

You’ll get taxed at 5% and then you’ll get a nice chunk of that back when you do your taxes. Probably ends up being like 3% in the end. They also deduct for labor and national health insurance, but you benefit from those, especially the NHI. You don’t get retirement but you do get a full month’s salary as bonus at the end of each contract, assuming you haven’t completely fucked up. It’s easy to save up to half your money (around $1000 USD) each month. Living in Taiwan is cheap. End result, you could save up to $14,000 USD in one year.

  1. Going with recruiters has more benefits than drawbacks. Some of them actually know what they are doing and aren’t out to screw you. Generally speaking though they know more about the hiring and visa process than the schools do. Typically the schools know fuck all about how to process a work permit for a foreigner. I got hired by my first school directly and getting the work permit was a real pain in the ass because they had no clue what they were doing, and neither did I. After being through it, I know what to do and what to expect, so I wouldn’t mind doing that again knowing what I know now. I went with a recruiter for another school and they pretty much handled stuff for me and knew what they were doing. If you want to apply directly to the MOE contact your local TECO, they might be able to help you out. Don’t expect too much from them though, these programs are highly unorganized and completely disjointed from one another. Someone at TECO might actually know about the work permit application process, or be diligent enough or care enough to find out for you. But don’t expect schools to have any clue what they are doing, unless they have already been hiring foreign teachers for a few years.
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Hi there.
I currently work at an elementary school full time in southern Taiwan.
I’ll try to answer these with my limited experiences. (This is my second year, but I started late last year)
Keep in mind, I’d imagine these experiences would vary.

It’s 8-4, but I have to report to work by 7:30. The contract says you are only allowed to teach 22hrs a week. Rest of the hours are all office hours and few occasions where you will have to participate in a school events. You get plenty of breaks but you will have 1-2 days where grinding work would be necessary(for me, they’re Tuesdays and Thursdays). Wednesdays are generally easy as it is a designated half-day. Kids get out after 12.

I can’t say much about the summer classes because I haven’t done them yet, but winter break classes were super easy. You do get paid on national holidays. So even if you are off work because of the holiday, you are being paid! That’s the beauty of this work. I’m getting my full salary plus full attendance bonus in the month of February despite the CNY vacation. As for the CNY, I don’t know so much. I know they get quite a few days off, but I heard this year was comparatively low from previous years. Yes, you only get 10 days of paid vacations but as I’ve said, you are getting paid on the national holidays. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but I don’t think it’s too shabby.

I’m teaching at an elementary school, and it is fairly easy. What some might find troublesome is that I have to provide my own material. I think this is conditional to their respective schools though. I much prefer to have my own material as this gives me power to create my own syllabus and control the curriculum. In this way, school doesn’t have too much power or have the say to my classes. Now I can’t say much about higher grades. I heard it’s more challenging in Jr.high and Sr.high.

I am quite young. I’m 37 and the schools tend to prefer a younger teacher, but I’ve seen few older folks who have been doing this for more than 2-3 years. This is not a long term employment (thus the yearly contract) and MOE doesn’t seem to expect a long term foreign teachers for this particular program. I love this job and I wish the MOE would implement some plans for teachers like me, but unfortunately no. You’ll be assessed at the end of the year to determine your bonus AND the rehiring process through the MOE.

They set a specific amount of salary for Master holders. I believe its like 72k plus the monthly bonuses, but don’t quote me on that.

There were situations where the teachers were relocated from one school to another, but I don’t know the specific reasons. So it is possible to relocate, though I heard that schools are reluctant to do so in most cases unless the relationship was just terrible between the teacher and the school.

No, no retirement :astonished:. This job is not for someone who is looking to work for a long term, though I’ve heard of some rare exceptions.

I was recruited by the agency who was appointed by MOE. I didn’t apply and I didn’t pay a penny for this placement. Therefore I can’t comment too much as it was really simple and fast for me. I do know that they will reimburse you for the flight in and out from your respective country.

I am very lucky because this school and the staff treat me exceptionally well. They are extremely hospitable and I really enjoy this job. I’m not sure about moving here, but it might be your worthwhile to commit a year or two to experience the lifestyle of rural Taiwan.
Hope this helps!