Teaching Kindergarten on an APRC

I’m wondering if I should crosspost this to the Teaching forum as well, but I’ll just put it here for now…

Basically, I’m wondering if anyone actually knows the law regarding teaching in a kindergarten. I’ve got a friend with an APRC and Open Work Permit… And he wants to teach kindy. Is it legal?

My (possibly flawed) understanding is that his immigration status is not tied to his employment, therefore he will not be breaking immigration law by teaching at a kindergarten, but rather will be breaking some kind of education regulation that will hopefully result in a fine rather than deportation if caught.

Obviously, I have no idea what the actual laws are, so I was hoping someone here could shed some light on it.

[quote=“spaint”]I’m wondering if I should crosspost this to the Teaching forum as well, but I’ll just put it here for now…

Basically, I’m wondering if anyone actually knows the law regarding teaching in a kindergarten. I’ve got a friend with an APRC and Open Work Permit… And he wants to teach kindy. Is it legal?

My (possibly flawed) understanding is that his immigration status is not tied to his employment, therefore he will not be breaking immigration law by teaching at a kindergarten, but rather will be breaking some kind of education regulation that will hopefully result in a fine rather than deportation if caught.

Obviously, I have no idea what the actual laws are, so I was hoping someone here could shed some light on it.[/quote]

He could check with the NIA or the MOE… afaik if you have an APRC you have an open work permit. Kindy’s cannot offer work permits for foreigners and thats where the problem arises for those who get caught working without a work permit. An APRC holder doesn’t require a work permit.

The ultimate legality of teaching kindy on JFRV/APRC is not fully clear. However, for all intents and purposes, your friend is safe. Your interpretation is correct. The reason foreigners get deported (not near as often as reading these boards would lead you believe btw) is that they are in violation of their employment restrictions and not solely because the kindy teaching is verboten. They could face the same fate if they drove a taxi on a teaching ARC. Foreigners on spousal or permanent ARCs do not have restrictions and, so, don’t get deported for doing any specific job. There may be some violation of credential requirements and/or some rule violation for teaching English generally, but these are not the focus of enforcement; if it were, the penalty would likely be a fine, much like for a local.

This is not true. An APRC holder must separately apply for an open work permit. However, once you have the APRC, the application process for the open work permit is very simple. See lots of threads relevant to this in the Visa and Residency forum.

Edit: See Northcoast Surfer’s informative thread about open work permit applications in this forum.

This is not true. An APRC holder must separately apply for an open work permit. However, once you have the APRC, the application process for the open work permit is very simple. See lots of threads relevant to this in the Visa and Residency forum.

Edit: See Northcoast Surfer’s informative thread about open work permit applications in this forum.[/quote]

YEs sorry I should have written they dont need a work permit from an employer as they get an open work permit. It seems silly they get an APRC yet need the formality of applying for an open work permit which is automatically granted.

Agreed.

I really wish one of those lawyer chaps or chapettes out there will eventually give us a definitive answer to this question.

If you are caught working a kindy on an APRC, WILL YOU GET DEPORTED OR NOT?

This is not true. An APRC holder must separately apply for an open work permit. However, once you have the APRC, the application process for the open work permit is very simple. See lots of threads relevant to this in the Visa and Residency forum.

Edit: See Northcoast Surfer’s informative thread about open work permit applications in this forum.[/quote]

YEs sorry I should have written they dont need a work permit from an employer as they get an open work permit. It seems silly they get an APRC yet need the formality of applying for an open work permit which is automatically granted.[/quote]

As you probably already know, the APRC only says you can stay in Taiwan without a job. You still need to apply for a work permit after you get an APRC to qualify to work in Taiwan. But once you get that open work permit, you are as good as gold. Companies can hire you quickly, pretty much on the spot.

For me, I just like the warm-fuzzy feeling of having my work permit in my own pocket. Also, I work at a large school with many branches, so I don’t have to worry about being registered to work at any one particular place. It makes life easier for my company too, because my APRC and my open work permit never expire. But it also makes it easier for me to walk away at any time! :slight_smile: I can also have multiple jobs if I want.

With an APRC and an open work permit, you can find much better work than kindy. You are now qualified to teach at an elementary school or high school, even without a teaching degree. While the pay may not be much better than teaching Kindy, the benefits are incredible (paid time off, etc.). And the level of respect is higher. Most people don’t know this, it seems. Kindy does very little for your resume.

[quote=“jimipresley”]I really wish one of those lawyer chaps or chapettes out there will eventually give us a definitive answer to this question.

If you are caught working a kindy on an APRC, WILL YOU GET DEPORTED OR NOT?[/quote]

I would doubt it as you aren’t working illegally if you have an open work permit.

[quote=“jimipresley”]I really wish one of those lawyer chaps or chapettes out there will eventually give us a definitive answer to this question.

If you are caught working a kindy on an APRC, WILL YOU GET DEPORTED OR NOT?[/quote]
Don’t hold your breath. The lawyer chaps do not seem to want to answer this question, so all we can do is speculate.

:s I’m sorry, but where do you get this information from?

[quote=“A-ha”]

:s I’m sorry, but where do you get this information from?[/quote]

It’s true. It’s much the same reason as the kindy situation. The licence is required for work permit reasons. Without it, they cannot get you a work permit for the job but, since you don’t need one with JFRV/APRC, it’s kind of moot. Look into elementary and high schools and the ads that pop up from time to time. They will often say, “teaching licence from home country or JFRV/APRC.”

[quote=“Toasty”][quote=“A-ha”]

:s I’m sorry, but where do you get this information from?[/quote]

It’s true. It’s much the same reason as the kindy situation. The licence is required for work permit reasons. Without it, they cannot get you a work permit for the job but, since you don’t need one with JFRV/APRC, it’s kind of moot. Look into elementary and high schools and the ads that pop up from time to time. They will often say, “teaching licence from home country or JFRV/APRC.”[/quote]
As a new member of the APRC/open work permit brigade, I was completely surprised reading this. Can anyone provide up-to-date information as to whether this is (still) correct?

[quote=“Steve4nLanguage”][quote=“Toasty”][quote=“A-ha”]

:s I’m sorry, but where do you get this information from?[/quote]

It’s true. It’s much the same reason as the kindy situation. The licence is required for work permit reasons. Without it, they cannot get you a work permit for the job but, since you don’t need one with JFRV/APRC, it’s kind of moot. Look into elementary and high schools and the ads that pop up from time to time. They will often say, “teaching licence from home country or JFRV/APRC.”[/quote]
As a new member of the APRC/open work permit brigade, I was completely surprised reading this. Can anyone provide up-to-date information as to whether this is (still) correct?[/quote]

It’s incorrect. You are not allowed to teach in PUBLIC schools, but often able to get a position in PRIVATE schools. That’s when they say “teaching licence from home country or JFRV/APRC.” This will be a PRIVATE elementary or high school.

Dredging up an old topic but here is the answer.

Kindergarten teaching…

  • on ARC you will get deported, no exceptions, you’re violating your work terms, guanxi won’t fix the situation either
  • on APRC (with Open Work Permit) you will get a warning, and be required to sign a confession of guilt that you violated the rules, further infractions could result in a fine
  • on JFRV you will get a warning, and be required to sign a confession of guilt that you violated the rules, further infractions could result in a fine

…your employer will get fined if the authorities really do come around and find any of the above candidates.

https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=126257

To be a full-time teacher in a public school here you need to be qualified as a teacher (teaching degree and all that, and Taiwanese).

As an extra-curricular teacher (part time teacher) those rules don’t apply, but of course none of the full-time teacher benefits apply either.

Great info and a great update. Thanks!

To be a full-time teacher in a public school here you need to be qualified as a teacher (teaching degree and all that, and Taiwanese).

As an extra-curricular teacher (part time teacher) those rules don’t apply, but of course none of the full-time teacher benefits apply either.[/quote]

Not true. I know a few people working for public schools full-time on JFRV who do not have a teaching licence or qualifying degree from their home country. The PTA of the public schools they work for pay the salary (pretty decent pay too: 60,000-65,000/mo). The catch is that it is “under the table” and not being reported for tax. A few public schools in Taipei are advertising they are hiring only foreigners with a JFRV and will not hire you with an APRC because that requires you to file taxes. The schools that I know do this for sure have been doing it for 10 years and the government is aware of it but turns a blind eye to it.

I’ve been told very recently by the Taoyuan labour office, categorically, you cannot be deported for teaching kindy if you have a JFRV. You’re looking at a measly $600 fine if caught and pursued, which seems unlikely to me.

The rule for JFRV only applies to people married to Taiwanese nationals. Because only such people are allowed to work without an Open Work Permit. They automatically have the right to work. I imagine because the government that wants to take care of its own people. Imagine a government allowing foreign men to come an marry local women only to be a bum and not take care of the family financially. Yea, the government is not going to like that.

As far as JFRV for foreigners coming here to stay with their ARC/APRC holding spouses. They cannot work legally at all.

I doubt that you can get an Open Work Permit if you have an APRC based on JFRV (for cases such as foreign spouse married to foreign worker).

I doubt that you can get an Open Work Permit if you have an APRC based on JFRV (for cases such as foreign spouse married to foreign worker).[/quote]

I don’t think you can get an APRC based on a foreign spouse JFRV. My understanding from a friend is that his wife (non-working in Taiwan) fulfills the years requirement but would need a full time teaching job for a year to meet the income requirements by herself for an APRC. Until then she remains on a JFRV ARC (not APRC).