I’d like to start a discussion here on ethics and technology, especially with regards to downloading and torrents and p2p, etc. I want to do the right thing, but what’s right? What’s legal? I used to be allowed to copy an album on to a tape and give it to a friend. Mixed tapes as gifts were a major indication of friendship, and even love when sent to that certain someone. What about now? Can I not use current technology the way I did 20 years ago? Can I not watch a TV show downloaded from the internet? How about a movie?
I think it’s a matter of degree, sharing with one person isn’t a problem, but sharing with a thousand is. As for what’s legal, I think the courts and lawyers have decided this when they shut down lots of sites that said they were being legal.
The right thing to do is to pay for services and goods you use, and not to encourage others to avoid payment. Isn’t there already a rule about this ? Don’t post links to sites that are full of copyright infringing material ?
Even if you’re working without a visa, you can’t go giving people instructions on how to do the same.
I have 40-50 gb of music I could not have legitimately bought in Taiwan. I’m not mean, and not don’t want to rip artists off, though and I do still pay for A LOT of stuff. But unfortunately, only the bigger, more establish artists are commercially available in Taiwan. I’d love to support more independent music through buying their stuff like I did in the UK.
Also, there is the issue fo downloading stuff I already own. I have hundreds, if not thousands of vinyl records at my sisters place back in England. If I want to listen to The Fall’s first album or that wyrd Jacques Brel album I bought on the school trip to Belgium, what can I do? I own those, I just can’t listen to them in Taiwan.
Maybe I’m WRONG but wouldn’t most artists rather people listened and paid where possible? I’m not saying they don’t deserve my money, I’m really not, but availability is the key for me.
One of the things I love about new technology is making ‘mix’ CDs. I love to receive these too (so rare, so rare…). It’s like being a teenager again. My first love giving me that tape with Tom Waits and Ledbelly and Primus and Frank Zappa. Ahhh.
“Peer Pressure” by Michael McKoveck in Jungle talks about MediaDefender, which record and movie companies hire to mess around with P2P downloads.
It’s brilliant. I am clearly a target of theirs, because I can’t afford to spend time/bandwidth (connection speed) on risky downloads. I am easily frustrated and would prefer to pay to download eps, if I was certain that they wouldn’t clog up my lines and appear just as I expect them too.
The more successful firms like MediaDefender are, the less concerned I am about file sharing. Although using such a service implies that Big Media accepts that there will be people who will continue to download copyrighted media (hardcore pirates and kids), these aren’t the people they (big business) is interested in anyway. As we used to say in school, "Vive la customer differentiation’ - or somethinlikethat.
How is this topic related to “feedback”?
There’s a story about a man who walked past a restaurant and got the smell of a wonderful pot of soup. He enjoyed the smell so much that it angered the chef. The chef demanded that the man pay for the smell. The man took out a coin and dropped it on the floor. He then asked the chef if he had heard the sound of the coin hitting the floor. The chef said “yes” and the man told him that that was his payment for the smell.
More people would pay for a legal copy of a book or cd if they were very cheap. We pay through our noses to keep people like Madona rich and then they look down on us. It doesn’t make sense.
[quote=“AAF”]There’s a story about a man who walked past a restaurant and got the smell of a wonderful pot of soup. He enjoyed the smell so much that it angered the chef. The chef demanded that the man pay for the smell. The man took out a coin and dropped it on the floor. He then asked the chef if he had heard the sound of the coin hitting the floor. The chef said “yes” and the man told him that that was his payment for the smell.
More people would pay for a legal copy of a book or cd if they were very cheap. We pay through our noses to keep people like Madona rich and then they look down on us. It doesn’t make sense.[/quote]
Yes, good business says if you let many people get it for cheap, very cheap, you’ll stilll make money.
I’d pay a dollar for a downloaded movie.
We don’t have to wait for someone to come to us with a comment, suggestion or question. We can ask you for your thoughts, too, can’t we?
[quote=“AAF”]More people would pay for a legal copy of a book or cd if they were very cheap. We pay through our noses to keep people like Madona rich and then they look down on us. It doesn’t make sense.[/quote]Madonna and Bill Gates are bad examples, there are many people in the entertainment business that don’t make much but still deserve to get paid. There are several Forumosans that work in the entertainment business, are you saying they earn too much too ?
Regarding looking down on us - what has this to do with buying their products? I mean if you don’t like Madonna as a person and you think this is a reason not to buy her products then don’t.
There are a lot of arguments about music not being worth the money etc. but I don’t see how this would give anyone the right to illegally obtain such stuff (an argument I have heard many times before), instead the obvious choice would again be not to buy the products (CDs or whatever). That would eventually hurt the record companies and middlemen (artists get just a fraction of the cost of a CD) and may make them rethink their pricing.
However the amount of illegal download shows to me that people do indeed like the stuff, but I guess everyone has a some good reason to “justify” it …
No, I’m sure that entertaining forumosans don’t earn too much.
I’m also sure that any money they make comes from performance, rather than mass production and distribution.
Large music corps aren’t nurturing talent any longer, they’re manufacturing icons; they aren’t selling music, they’re selling plastic disks. iTunes has been getting grief from media corps looking to bump up the price, but even at $1/song, they’re overcharging. They’re providing a lesser quality digital copy (costs=licensing and bandwidth; no physical reproduction) at a rate that generally works out to a few bucks more than the full cd would cost. The old business model is busted. Good riddance. I don’t need to pay for their hype, and would appreciate it very much if I didn’t need to shovel my way through it while looking for genuine (not celebrity) news.
Ditto film.
Ditto games.
In each case, we’re compelled to pay through the nose for marketing, but only so long as product delivery is tied to an otherwise unavailable physical object. Hurray for digitalization: cut out the media campaign, save an oil well, don’t bury any more land in packaging rubbish. Give it to me cheap, in an environmentally friendly manner, and I’ll pay. Chain me to a bunch of shit I have no need for, and I’ll go out of my way to make a mess of it, just to be a contrary bastard.
We don’t have to wait for someone to come to us with a comment, suggestion or question. We can ask you for your thoughts, too, can’t we?[/quote]
Yes, of course, but that wasn’t my point. Wouldn’t the Technology or Open forum be a better fit for this topic? After all, when the rank and file post comments that the mods deem “misplaced”, they’re usually given short shrift, often to the bemusement of the poster.
We don’t have to wait for someone to come to us with a comment, suggestion or question. We can ask you for your thoughts, too, can’t we?[/quote]
Yes, of course, but that wasn’t my point. Wouldn’t the Technology or Open forum be a better fit for this topic? After all, when the rank and file post comments that the mods deem “misplaced”, they’re usually given short shrift, often to the bemusement of the poster.[/quote]
I wish you asked this in the first place!
In any case, I imagine that the feedback generated by this discussion could lead to a change in policy for the entire forum (that is, where we may ask moderators change how they do something, even if they aren’t in the tech forum).
When I read the OP’s post, it was pretty clear that it was looking for feedback. Indeed, I wish more posts in the open forum that were in fact feedback threads about Forumosa would be originally posted here.
Well, the industry says, “Watching illegal downloads is like stealing money from the industry.”
I am not certain I believe that. They don’t automatically get my money when they make a movie/cd/tv show, so I’m not “stealing” from them, am I? I am not breaking into a theatre to watch a film. I’m getting it for free using free, legal (maybe??) and easily available technology.
It is not money I “take.” It is more, “money they don’t get.”
Does that make sense?
Goose Egg,
Forgive me, but isn’t the purpose of the Feedback forum to “Let us know how you feel about the website and tell us how it could improve. We’ll do the same.”? I fail to see how this is the best forum for a discussion on the ethics of p2p and torrenting.
If you’d ever been on the receiving end of a mod’s seemingly arbitrary - and often unexplained - decision to temp one of your posts, perhaps you’d understand.
Hi, it’s not just to receive feedback, but also a good place for us to solicit it. As Goose Egg said, feedback here may affect Forumosa policy. The Feedback forum is the right place for this topic, I believe.
[quote=“Infidel”]Goose Egg,
Forgive me, but isn’t the purpose of the Feedback forum to “Let us know how you feel about the website and tell us how it could improve. We’ll do the same.”? I fail to see how this is the best forum for a discussion on the ethics of p2p and torrenting.
If you’d ever been on the receiving end of a mod’s seemingly arbitrary - and often unexplained - decision to temp one of your posts, perhaps you’d understand.[/quote]
We’re veering off topic.
If you want to talk about the purpose of the feedback forum, search for an appropriate discussion here or start a new topic. Bear in mind, I don’t have more to add to why i considered this to be a feedback thread
If you want to discuss your perception of Thread Temping, post it here - I’ve started a new thread
Hi, Maoman
You’re planning to branch out into file sharing?
[quote=“Infidel”]Hi, Maoman
You’re planning to branch out into file sharing?[/quote]
:bravo:
There’s a difference between live performances and recorded or televised performances. Overcharging for recorded and mass-produced works is exploitation in my book, however it doesn’t justify breaking the law.