Temporary VS Permanent

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1

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=61817&start=30

I would like this discussion to be in the right place, as Maoman rightly suggested. The above link is to a thread in temp, so you will need to be signed in to open the link. Below is a copy of my last post in that thread… JoeSax has kindly suggested that I am whinging, although I find that a further attempt to suppress users feedback. :slight_smile:

[quote=“dragonbones”]

Same here – I just don’t see points of view or serious arguments being suppressed by temping. I do see some extreme silliness or grossness being temped, and that’s a policy call by the owners of this private site. I happen to agree with that call, and I don’t consider that a ‘moral judgment’ – just a perfectly legitimate assessment of what is or isn’t of permanent value to a private website. [/quote]

Temporary matters:

Monamii questions people’s right to slag off Taiwan.
Sandman searches for a mini helicopter.
Rantheman complains about a Tai Ke festival.
tash looks for an alternative to sanitary products.
Thyrdrail sparks a discussion about perceptions towards the Chinese.
Tainan Cowboy shares a reminiscence.
Joesax seeks an answer to an oft asked interview question.

Permanent matters:

A man cleans his teeth in front of Kate.Lin
Loretta asks why it isn’t raining now.
MuchaMan asks why he is cooking bacon early in the morning.
MotherTheresa starts a war about what happened to Ma Ke.
TheGingerman asks ‘Which Wind in the Willows character are you most like.’
Funk500 states that he is looking for pre-teens in a dating forum.

So how can it be true that some points of view and some opinions aren’t suppressed? Tell me how Muzha man’s bacon is more serious than JoeSax’s interview question.
I am genuinely confused. One can say, ‘I am looking for pre-teens,’ or ‘I think that picture of the 11 year old Saaya is hot,’ but one cannot say ‘I took a crap.’
I am perplexed.

2

Alright, here’s the reply that I made to that post in the other thread.

[quote=“TomHill”]So how can it be true that some points of view and some opinions aren’t supressed. Tell me how Muzha man’s bacon is more serious than JoeSax’s interview question.[/quote]I don’t feel suppressed! But that’s because I started that thread in temp. I think Sandman started his helicopter thread there too. And Maoman explained the reason for the sanitary products thread being temped, though I guess some bits of that thread might go into the Health and Fitness forum.

I won’t deny that the site has a bit of a nanny-ish feel to it sometimes. If I owned an online community website, I might not have a policy to move subjectively-defined “silly posts” to the temporary forum. But then again, if I owned such a website, I’m sure it wouldn’t be nearly as successful or useful as this one. If grandma had balls she’d be a grandpa, as the saying goes.

I don’t think things are going to change in this regard, though if you want to have a periodic whinge you’re entitled to it.

3

I’ve always felt that temping is often a bit arbitrary, especially when you see topics reappearing but being allowed to continue existing unchallenged the second time around.

But so what?

This is not a democracy.

Tom will now reply that it’s a community made up of the contributions of the members, and that therefore the opinions of the members should be respected.

Someone will reply that if Tom doesn’t like it here he could post somewhere else,

and Tom’s response will be that if everyone does that - as they surely should do in response to the overly nannying attitudes of the mods - then there’ll be nobody here so the mods should respect the views of the community. (ie Tom)

And the argument finishes with the observation that not only do most people not leave, but that Tom doesn’t either, despite promising to on a regular basis, indicating that the system seems to work well enough most of the time that the site continues to be a success.

Pretty much everyone has bitched at some point about having their pet topic temped or deleted while other less worthwhile posts have unaccountably been allowed to flourish. Sooner or later everyone gets pissed off, and virtually everything you do as a mod or administrator is going to attract flak from someone. It’s inevitable in a diverse community that people have differing standards.

The solution is to either do absolutely nothing, or to do what seems right to you and give up justifying yourself. Doing nothing has been tried, and didn’t really work, which is why we now have rules and a temp forum and a banning/suspension system and all the rest of that distasteful paraphenalia. It’s also why the powers that be do what they have to do and don’t waste a lot of time in these threads any more.

4

Here’s a question, which is probably off-topic…

Do the people who are inclined to complain about being temped display any common characteristics in their posting? I don’t specifically the content, but rather the style.

I have this theory that ‘fire and forget’ posters, who often pay little attention to grammar and spelling, don’t really care what happens to their threads. They just spout their garbage and then move on.

The ones who care about their babies are also the ones who try to ensure that they get lots of replies, by engaging the other posters and also by taking the trouble to make themselves clear.

If so, then annoying as Tom’s whingeing may be it is at least a sign of a commitment to quality and deserves some recognition.

5

You know, there’s just too much drivel out there for the overworked mods, ESPECIALLY in Open, to catch everything that really oughta be temped. We have JOBs, people. Families. Get a life. Just because some tempworthy stuff slips through the cracks doesn’t mean what got temped shouldn’t have been. Oh, THAT silly thread didn’t get temped, so MY silly thread deserves to stay, boo hoo hoo. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

That’s like saying to the cop who pulls you over for running a red light, “hey, you didn’t pull that guy in front of me over!”
:loco:

And if you know you’re posting silly humor or drivel, why don’t you just start it in Fun & Games or Temp and do us a favor? Geez.

If you don’t think modding is being done thoroughly enough or well enough, how 'bout volunteering to help instead of incessantly bitching?

Rant over, carry on. :stuck_out_tongue:

6

[quote=“Dragonbones”]You know, there’s just too much drivel out there for the overworked mods, ESPECIALLY in Open, to catch everything that really oughta be temped. We have JOBs, people. Families. Get a life. Just because some tempworthy stuff slips through the cracks doesn’t mean what got temped shouldn’t have been. Oh, THAT silly thread didn’t get temped, so MY silly thread deserves to stay, boo hoo hoo. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

That’s like saying to the cop who pulls you over for running a red light, “hey, you didn’t pull that guy in front of me over!”
:loco:

And if you know you’re posting silly humor or drivel, why don’t you just start it in Fun & Games or Temp and do us a favor? Geez.

If you don’t think modding is being done thoroughly enough or well enough, how 'bout volunteering to help instead of incessantly bitching?

Rant over, carry on. :p[/quote]

This sort of post really endears me to you mods.
I could pull out a post of yours saying you sit at work doing nothing all day. :slight_smile: Busy my foot.
I asked to be a mod once. Permission denied. I was put forward to be a mod at a mod meeting once. Permission denied. Someone suggested I be made a mod in this forum once. Permission denied. You guys don’t want me to be a mod, so learn to deal with my impotent bitching. At least I’m trying to make a change.

7

[quote=“Loretta”]I’ve always felt that temping is often a bit arbitrary, especially when you see topics reappearing but being allowed to continue existing unchallenged the second time around.

But so what?

This is not a democracy.

Tom will now reply that it’s a community made up of the contributions of the members, and that therefore the opinions of the members should be respected.

Someone will reply that if Tom doesn’t like it here he could post somewhere else,

and Tom’s response will be that if everyone does that - as they surely should do in response to the overly nannying attitudes of the mods - then there’ll be nobody here so the mods should respect the views of the community. (ie Tom)

And the argument finishes with the observation that not only do most people not leave, but that Tom doesn’t either, despite promising to on a regular basis, indicating that the system seems to work well enough most of the time that the site continues to be a success.

Pretty much everyone has bitched at some point about having their pet topic temped or deleted while other less worthwhile posts have unaccountably been allowed to flourish. Sooner or later everyone gets pissed off, and virtually everything you do as a mod or administrator is going to attract flak from someone. It’s inevitable in a diverse community that people have differing standards.

The solution is to either do absolutely nothing, or to do what seems right to you and give up justifying yourself. Doing nothing has been tried, and didn’t really work, which is why we now have rules and a temp forum and a banning/suspension system and all the rest of that distasteful paraphenalia. It’s also why the powers that be do what they have to do and don’t waste a lot of time in these threads any more.[/quote]That’s pretty much word for word my opinion on the matter.

The only qualification I’d add is that I’m still somewhat ambivalent about the use of the temp forum for “disciplinary” purposes. But I think quite a few of us mods try to tread lightly and act circumspectly regarding temping/moving stuff. Overall policy might not change, but there’s some leeway in its implementation.

8

Try being positive and helpful for a while and maybe admin will rethink your application for mod duty. :idunno:

9

[quote=“Dragonbones”]You know, there’s just too much drivel out there for the overworked mods, ESPECIALLY in Open, to catch everything that really oughta be temped. We have JOBs, people. Families. Get a life. Just because some tempworthy stuff slips through the cracks doesn’t mean what got temped shouldn’t have been. Oh, THAT silly thread didn’t get temped, so MY silly thread deserves to stay, boo hoo hoo. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

That’s like saying to the cop who pulls you over for running a red light, “hey, you didn’t pull that guy in front of me over!”
:loco:

And if you know you’re posting silly humor or drivel, why don’t you just start it in Fun & Games or Temp and do us a favor? Geez.

If you don’t think modding is being done thoroughly enough or well enough, how 'bout volunteering to help instead of incessantly bitching?

Rant over, carry on. :p[/quote]

A lot of the drivel is written by mods. That’s like a policeman stopping speeding cars then speeding themselves.

By modding, you align yourself and tacitly agree with the posts and activities of the mods. That’s like disagreeing with the work of the police but becoming a police officer. However, I am happy to become another kind of community worker to repay the admins for the huge service they have done to me by allowing me to meet the good forumosans.

The traffic police should take back their lives and give the rest of us a break. Calling people’s posts ‘drivel’ is unconscionable unless they are racist, sexist, homophobic, or cruel. It’s like a police officer arresting somebody for being drunk and disorderly because it seems to him/her they weren’t walking a straight line and then banging them up with no explanation while everyone says ‘Huh?’.

I respect the law, but I don’t agree with it, or its’ policing. Very telling analogy, DB.

The problem with these whines is that nobody will care until there are fewer hits on the site. And that’s why X mod and Y poster are gently encouraged to rip eachother a new one every now and again. I bore of my place in this brave new world, though. We may all have ‘lives’, but we still bother to argue with people we don’t care about at 11 at night. It’s a shame that we do really have nothing better to do. It’s not that we’re addicted, or anything. One day, I will learn moderation and leave this place

And why announce ‘Rant over’ if there’s no more writing after it?

Add your own smileys.

10

[quote]It’s a shame that we do really have nothing better to do. [/quote]That hits home for me.

Tom, being a mod is nothing special. It takes away the fun in posting if anything. For me anyways. And you’re right, moderating isn’t that time consuming at all. The thing is, however, there is a big difference from logging in to browse, and logging in to mod. Simply because when you browse, you can log off anytime, as when you mod, the moderating work always seem to happen when you’d be in the mood/need to log off. So you go from logging on and off as you please to feeling like you have to do this or that before you can log off once you’re a mod. In other words, it’s not so much the amount of time spent modding that can interfere with work and a mod’s personal life, but more so the timing of it all. It never seems to work out. That’s how it was for me anyways. When I had lots of time to browse, nothing happened, and when I had things to do, the shit would hit the fan in one or two threads.

Anyways, and FWIW, I think Tom would be a great moderator. An open minded, smart, kind hearted, humble and honest poster who made is way from the very bottom to the top as one of the most interesting and readable poster here. If that’s not enough to qualify, then I really don’t know what it takes.

I also agree with DB that the temp forum is an ideal place to start threads. I use it a lot when I feel silly, and I am often happy that my drivel can somehow auto-erase itself after a while. Less of a reminder of what Buttercup stated above, I suppose.

11

I applied once, I’m not applying again.

How did you become a mod? You are as much of an arse as I am. :idunno:

12

Thanks m’dears. Erm, both of you.

The thing with all this to and fro-ing is that we have no way of knowing who is RIGHT. I mean, where’s the SCIENCE?

13

This is a classic example of the faith vs science debate. In this case, the site is administered by people of faith. Their decisions are based on what feels right to them rather than on any objective measure of a post’s worth, while Tom would prefer to see some kind of algorithm used in conjunction with reliable metrics to ensure consistency.

As he has such a wonderful enquiring mind, rational outlook, and a pet cat, I think he would make a great moderator for the new science forum. If it happens.

14

Erm, I was actually advocating putting two frogs in a bucket, one saying ‘X is RIGHT, morally, factually and grammatically’, the other saying ‘X is not the other frog’. The frog that jumps out first spekes the truthe!

Algorithms! They are about as much use as magnets…

15

But you don’t even know the diffrence between frogs and crickets. What if the ‘frog’ leaps out and says ‘X is not a frog’? How will you know if it’s telling the truth?

Anyway, frogs can’t speak. Shows how much you know about science.

16

:laughing: My arse is bigger than your arse.

Not if you have one modship in a low-volume forum. Try doing four including Open. And TomHill, I don’t need you to tell me whether I’m busy or not, thanks much. :wink:

That’s the spirit! :slight_smile:

No argument here. :laughing: You’re welcome to PM the mod of an area if you think something written by a mod deserves equal treatment. :idunno: You’re also welcome to PM Maoman if you have further complaints about modding.

BTW, if mods start threads which are pure silliness in the areas I mod, I temp those too, or send them to F&G, and I never get complaints from them about that. If I do the same to certain posters’, it’s whine, whine, whine. :s

Phrasing something as a hypothetical, e.g., “if you post drivel, then…” and calling a particular person’s posts drivel are entirely different.

Have a nice day! :rainbow: