Terror in the skies again?

[quote=“Flicka”]
If I have to hear about 3,000 innocent lives being lost I will vomit. Aren’t just as many innocent lives lost in Africa A DAY?[/quote]

That’s just malaria. Never mind those who die of AIDS because of lack of access to cheap anti-retroviral drugs due to big corporations’ intellectual property rights. “Sorry, dear you are going to die because I need to pay for my nice house and car in the 'burbs.”

And Fred, if arabs killed more peolple through acts of terror than white men, I’d be interested to see how you can prove that WWII didn’t happen.

Is Fred a racist now? Must be as he thinks that 3000 lives lost* in the WTC are worth more than those of browner peiople elsewhere. You seem to think that your life is worth more.

  • I appreciate that there were people of different ethnic ‘profiles’ who lost there lives.

I read the entire article and I stand by my statement that she did not opine that Arabs should not be permitted to fly.[/quote]

She seemed to be advocating some sort of action to protect her safety, no? What sort of action do you believe she was advocating, or would have advocated if she had expressed anything other than her fears? Strip searches of Ayrabs? Body cavity searches?

I am more concerned about American life than life from other countries. Sorry but there you have it.

Also, if you want to see what there are no malaria vaccines look to the countries who steal all the patents and scratch your head for as long as it takes for you to figure out why. In the meantime, you must admit that the US has given by far the most aid. Germany and France, however, have fallen behind their already contemptibly low commitments. What do you have to say about that?

[quote=“ImaniOU”][quote=“The Magnificent Tigerman”]I don’t think that was her position. I think her position clearly was that these persons should have been subjected to a higher degree of scrutiny in the security process. She said as much in her article.
[/quote]

I do not for one second doubt that these men underwent any less inspection than she and her family members did. I also don’t doubt that they were looked upon very suspiciously when they underwent inspection and probably were singled out for further inspection. After all, she couldn’t possibly know unless she were standing at the security gates watching every single passenger on that plane pass through (along with the thousands of others who were boarding planes that day). Crazy white men have caused far more terrorism in America than crazy Arab men. How come she’s not calling for white males to be scrutinized more?[/quote]

Again, I am not disputing any of this. I am merely stating that the woman did not opine that Arabs should not be permitted to fly.

I think everyone agrees with that.[/quote]

Whether this woman was right or wrong in her belief, she was afraid that the men had not been sufficiently screened. Whether she was right or wrong in her assessment thereof is not my concern here… I am merely pointing out that she did NOT opine that Arabs should not be permitted to fly.

I read the entire article and I stand by my statement that she did not opine that Arabs should not be permitted to fly.[/quote]

She seemed to be advocating some sort of action to protect her safety, no? What sort of action do you believe she was advocating, or would have advocated if she had expressed anything other than her fears? Strip searches of Ayrabs? Body cavity searches?[/quote]

She seemed to be advocating much higher levels of scrutiny of Arab passengers. But she did not opine that Arabs not be permitted to fly.

[quote=“fred smith”]I am more concerned about American life than life from other countries. Sorry but there you have it.

Also, if you want to see what there are no malaria vaccines look to the countries who steal all the patents and scratch your head for as long as it takes for you to figure out why. In the meantime, you must admit that the US has given by far the most aid. Germany and France, however, have fallen behind their already contemptibly low commitments. What do you have to say about that?[/quote]

We realize that you don’t give a shit about non-americans, that much is obvious.

And please prove that WWII caused less terror by white men than Arab terror since you became politically semi-active all those months ago.

Youa have also advocated racial profiling to ‘keep the streets’ safer. Stop and search, crescents sewn onto clothes. Because give an inch to your vote-less fascism, and there is no stopping it.

BroonAchtung

Judging from her letter, I do not believe she would be content so long as arabs (or arab-looking people) are permitted to sit near the cockpit, to nod or smile at one another or to get out of their seats during flight. Would it be reasonable to impose such restrictions? Should arabs be confined to a separate section of the plane with locking seatbelts and blinders? I doubt that you, TM, would support such a requirement, but do you really believe teh author would be content with anything less (assuming we are required by law to allow them on the plane in the first place)?

Maybe you answer the questions (here and in the other threads), they are addressed at you and have no relevance of my issues with Tigerman.

Judging from her letter, I do not believe she would be content so long as Arabs (or Arab-looking people) are permitted to sit near the cockpit, to nod or smile at one another or to get out of their seats during flight. Would it be reasonable to impose such restrictions? Should Arabs be confined to a separate section of the plane with locking seatbelts and blinders? I doubt that you, TM, would support such a requirement, but do you really believe teh author would be content with anything less (assuming we are required by law to allow them on the plane in the first place)?[/quote]

Well, I don’t want to make any assumptions.

I read the article and she indicated a fear based on the fact that she believed that these Arab passengers had not been sufficiently screened.

I am not defending the reasonableness of her belief that these passengers should have been or were not sufficiently screened. For all I know, the passengers in question were well screened and apparently were being watched.

I cannot say what she would like, if the decision were hers to make. But, in the article, she did not opine that Arabs be precluded from boarding flights.

[quote=“fred smith”]Prove white men have caused more terrorism than Arab males. I would be curious to see how you manage that.[/quote] I am not holding any claim that they commit more terrorism than whites seeing that Arabs around the world feel like they have a lot more to be angry about than white people. I said they are more likely to commit terrorism on American soil than Arabs. That said, here is your proof:

-October 16, 1859 - John Brown raids Harper’s Ferry taking more than 40 hostages

-November 1, 1955 - The first civilian plane destroyed by a bomber. Jack Gilbert Graham, age 23, put a bomb into his mother’s suitcase so he could collect her insurance money. She boarded a United Airlines flight from Denver to Portland. Explosion killed 44 people. Graham admitted guilt, convicted of murder, executed.

-September 15, 1963 - A white man was seen getting out of a white and turquoise Chevrolet car and placing a box under the steps of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. Soon afterwards, at 10.22 a.m., the bomb exploded killing four children. The four girls had been attending Sunday school classes at the church. Twenty-three other people were also hurt by the blast.

-Timeline for famous American terrorist Ted Kaczynski:
25 May 1978 A package is found in a parking lot at the University of Illinois in Chicago and is taken to Northwestern University in Evanston because of the return address. It explodes when it is opened on May 26, injuring Terry Marker, a security guard.
9 May 1979 Graduate student John Harris is injured by a bomb at Northwestern University.
15 Nov 1979 Twelve people suffer smoke inhalation when a bomb explodes in a 727’s cargo hold during an American Airlines flight, forcing an emergency landing at Dulles International Airport near Washington
10 Jun 1980 United Airlines President Percy Wood is injured at his home in the Chicago area.
8 Oct 1981 A bomb is found in a business classroom at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. No one is injured.
5 May 1982 Janet Smith, a secretary, is injured by a bomb at Vanderbilt University in Nashville. The package was addressed to computer science Professor Patrick Fischer.
2 Jul 1982 Diogenes Angelakos, a professor of electrical engineering and computer science, is injured in a faculty lounge at the University of California at Berkeley.
15 May 1985 Graduate student John Hauser is injured by a bomb in a computer lab at the University of California at Berkeley.
13 Jun 1985 A package-bomb mailed to Boeing Co. in Auburn, WA, on 8 May is discovered and disarmed.
15 Nov 1985 A package-bomb mailed to University of Michigan psychology Professor James McConnell injures his assistant, Nicklaus Suino. McConnell, standing nearby in his Ann Arbor home, isn’t hurt.
11 Dec 1985 Hugh Scrutton, 38, is killed by a bomb near his computer rental store in Sacramento.
20 Feb 1987 Gary Wright is injured by a bomb left behind a computer store in Salt Lake City, UT.
22 Jun 1993 Charles Epstein, a geneticist at UC San Francisco is in jured by a bomb sent to his home.
24 Jun 1993 Computer scientist Daved Gelernter of Yale University in New Haven, CT, is injured in an office.

-April 19, 1995 - Timothy McVeigh, of the US anti-government militia American Christian Patriots, caused truck bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 and injuring hundreds.

-March 24, 1998 - Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.

-April 20, 1999 - In less than fifteen minutes, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 13 and wounded 21 before they turned the guns on themselves.

-1866 to present - The Ku Klux Klan has so many acts of terrorism (arson, bombings, and murder) under their belt, that their acts alone far outnumber those committed by any other race group.

All terrorist acts committed by white males.

Number of terrorist acts committed by Arabs on American soil:

February 23, 1993 - The terrorists drove the 1,500-pound urea-nitrate bomb into the basement area of the World Trade Center and then set the timer and left. The explosion rocked the World Trade Center killing six people and injuring over a thousand others.

September 11, 2003 - On the morning of September 11th terrorists hijacked four commercial jet planes and attempted to fly them into several U.S. targets. This terrorist attack brought about the death of approximately 3,000 men, women and children from nations around the world.

Terrorism is horrible on any level, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that it’s only Arabs who have targeted innocent lives in America to push their personal agendas.

Imaniou:

So by the standards on this forum, let me ask you what you have against white people?

Why then am I being profiled every time I fly? I am not Arab.

Broon Ale: Put the blame where it belongs with the Germans. WWII has nothing to do with Americans starting anything. As usual, we put out the flames and cleaned up the mess.

Rascal: What is your question? I have nary a clue what you are asking? You phrase everything in such a convoluted manner that it really is difficult to understand when you are asking a question or giving an opinion, being hypothetical or asking us to agree with your this is the definition of is in this particular situation.

Anyway, I would warrant a guess that most airlines and airports are currently looking at arab and muslim groups for a very good reason. Disagree with it if it offends your sensibilities but don’t pretend that this just emerged from a cloud.

Sorry I agree with racial, sexual and any other profiling. No one’s rights are lost by doing so. So what’s the big deal. I am at the airport again and they pulled me over for questioning. Do you think I as a white male can sue? Or is that privilege only for the privileged oppressed? You know like those with brown skin. Admittedly I could work on my tan but surely getting pulled out of line each time is humiliating and embarrassing and degrading so where are my rights?

fred smith:
I am simply refuting this woman and your claim that Arabs are a bigger threat to national security over any other ethnic group. Don’t ask for evidence of Arabs not being terrorists on American soil and then turn it around to make me seem racist.

By the same standards of this forum, what do you have against brown people?

Since you have no idea of what it’s like to experience racial profiling from the very people whose job it is to protect and serve you (or so their motto claims), how does being a black person driving in a nice car make you a fit the profile of a criminal? How does being an Arab man riding in a car with four other Arab men make you a terrorist?
Have someone carrying a lethal weapon wielding their power over you just itching to find something wrong with you simply because of the color of your skin and the make of your car; then come and tell me what you think of racial profiling.
You honestly don’t think it’s frustrating and degrading that as an adult, you cannot get utilities, including cellular phone service, in your own name here simply because you’re a foreigner? Who cares if you’re an honest, responsible person? A few people who look like you screwed up so now anyone who looks like them, including yourself, cannot be trusted. Why should you have to suffer the consequences of some idiots’ behavior and be treated like a child? Oh yeah, because you’re non-Asian ergo, untrustworthy. This is not nearly harsh enough an analogy to give you a picture of what people suffer in the US since no one here is under the impression that you’re dangerous and therefore don’t treat you as a physical threat. However, it’s enough the iceberg to demonstrate the effects of racial profiling. I’m not trying to change your mind, fred smith cause Lord knows that’s never going to happen, but I’m optimistic that you have a shred of empathy in you to understand why this article bothers me so much. I don’t care that they do random searches on people in the airport. I do when I look around and see that they are all brown-skinned people. Doesn’t sound too random to me.

I referred to white men and WWII. Of course it was the Germans Fred. Where did I refer Americans starting it? You are beginning to twist things somewhat irrationally. That’s what disenfranchisement does, apparently.

You really are beginning to lose the plot. Get yer vote sorted out!

BroonAmerican

[quote=“fred smith”]
Also, if you want to see what there are no malaria vaccines look to the countries who steal all the patents and scratch your head for as long as it takes for you to figure out why. [/quote]
I already explained to you why this was bullshit but your brain seems to have lost a certain level of activity recently. Drug companies never had an incentive to research a malarial vaccine because the only market for it would be unable to pay enough for them to make a profit from it. Drug companies are not stupid. It has absolutely fuck all to do with patent theaft.

The real kicker to the article was the last sentence. Did anyone else find this a ridiculous deduction? So now terrorists who hijack planes will learn to play musical instruments? What are they gonna do, lull us into sleep before crashing the plane? Or kill us all with bad music? Maybe the stuff in the McD bag was the weed they were all taking turns smoking. Afterall, they ARE musicians. :loco:
There have been times when I was waived through Customs AND Immigration (but this was because I had diplomatic status at the time). Then there was the time in Holland when a newbie officer thought my passport was fake and took everything

[quote=“fred smith”]Why then am I being profiled every time I fly? I am not Arab…

I am at the airport again and they pulled me over for questioning. Do you think I as a white male can sue? Or is that privilege only for the privileged oppressed? You know like those with brown skin. Admittedly I could work on my tan but surely getting pulled out of line each time is humiliating and embarrassing and degrading so where are my rights?[/quote]

No, you undergoing their random search. They aren’t singling you out for any particular reason and there’s no specific thing that makes them choose you over others. However, being searched at three different airports on the same trip, meaning my baggage and my person searched and questioned, does not strike me as random. Especially when I noticed the only other people also being taken aside then also had darker skin.

Anyway, ignoring fred and his desire to get off topic yet again (big surprise), what if the reason why the men were gathered in the front and the back of the plane was so they could do their prayers and stay out of the way of the main traffic? Why would she expect someone who was being viewed suspiciously by her and undoubtly other passengers on the plane to have a very friendly face? How shallow could she be? Did she think that pulling a Kathie Lee Gifford smile (read: as plastic as Britney Spears boobs) would make them think she wasn’t a bigot who thought all Arab men should be thoroughly searched before being allowed on a plane and then strapped to their seats to prevent them from going to a bathroom, talking to other passengers, or handling their carry-on luggage?

!!!Are they real? Photos please!!!

Holy explosion of politically correct bullshit! I cannot believe the utter inanity on display in this thread. It is clear that none of you idiots read the whole article.

That the behavior displayed by the Middle Eastern men on the plane was suspicious is as plain as the nose on your face. Pretending that the writer is a racist is wilfully obtuse, and snide comparisons to “blacks at the back of the bus” is offensive.

Before I’m labeled a racial profiler or – worse yet – a racist, let me add this. A month ago I traveled to India to research a magazine article I was writing. My husband and I flew on a jumbo jet carrying more than 300 Hindu and Muslim men and women on board. We traveled throughout the country and stayed in a Muslim village 10 miles outside Pakistan. I never once felt fearful. I never once felt unsafe. I never once had the feeling that anyone wanted to hurt me. This time was different.

When they’re cleared for landing and the seatbelt sign comes on, then…

Suddenly, seven of the men stood up – in unison – and walked to the front and back lavatories. One by one, they went into the two lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the lavatory to become available. The men spoke in Arabic among themselves and to the man in the yellow shirt sitting nearby. One of the men took his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone. Again, no one approached the men. Not one of the flight attendants asked them to sit down. I watched as the man in the yellow shirt, still in his seat, reached inside his shirt and pulled out a small red book. He read a few pages, then put the book back inside his shirt. He pulled the book out again, read a page or two more, and put it back. He continued to do this several more times.

[i]…The… Transportation Security Administration issued an urgent memo detailing new threats to aviation and warning that terrorists in teams of five might be planning suicide missions to hijack commercial airliners, possibly using common items…such as cameras, modified as weapons.

…Components of IEDs [improvised explosive devices]can be smuggled on to an aircraft, concealed in either clothing or personal carry-on items… and assembled on board. In many cases of suspicious passenger activity, incidents have taken place in the aircraft’s forward lavatory.[/i]

I think profiling is a good thing if it increases the level of safety. El Al Airways has profiled Palestianian passengers since the 1970s (after Carlos the Jackal went after one of their planes), and there hasn’t been a single incident of terrorism on one of their airplanes since then. I don’t mind certain civil liberties being trampeled on at the airport, if it means I am getting from “Point A” to “Point B” in one piece. People aren’t just chosen based on their color – the countries stamped on your passport are also a determining factor. Two passports ago, every time I entered the U.S., I had to talk with the airport security guards and customs agents. They always wanted to know why I had visited Syria for 2.5 weeks. The fact of the matter is this — the people on September 11 were mostly of Saudi Arabian descent. This will have an impact on Mediterranean looking, African, and Middle Eastern people. IF they had been ten Norweigans, well then it would be a different story. Its bad luck for people of darker skin complexion, but thats the way the dice rolled this time.

That you don’t have a fucking clue is pretty clear to me but let me refresh your memory:

[quote=“fred”]I don’t hear any cries from the left about how sorry they are about the 19 getting through because of lax security.

There is nothing convoluted, hypothetical or otherwise ‘tricky’ about this question, so care to answer?

Well, fred for one admitted that he didn’t:

[quote=“fred”]No arguments there MT but the link does not give the full article. It is just a intro so you don’t really know what the woman saw or what she experienced.[/quote] :raspberry: