Going over to TaiwanHo is like visiting a corner bar. It should be named Jakeās. You can sit down, watch some sports and talk to the other regulars. If Jakeās not around, you can go behind the bar and pour yourself a pint. Jake trusts you to put your cash on the bar. There arenāt many folks around, and youāre all adults, after all, so why get uptight about it.
Forumosa is a college dorm where every September a new crop of kids comes in, and the same freshmen conversations start over and over again. The RAs have know each other for years, and every now and then they like to remind the new kids that their music is shit, and lacks the integrity of bands they listened to back in the day. These RAs generally donāt try to push out the new kids, and in fact they may try to help to the new kids adjust, but they turn a blind eye to fifth-year hangers-on that refuse to leave the dorms and wander around looking to take out their frustrations on the new kids. Why do the RAs tolerate this? Partly because they think itās amusing, partly because the fifth-years sell them pot, or partly because the fifth years represent some sort of permanence that they can latch on to as all these different kids come and go.
[quote=āJaboneyā]
If I were to go anywhere else to discuss life, politics, and all things musical, Callahanās Cross Time Saloon might be my first choice. It was fictional, has metastized into reality, and sounds like a great place. But, since Iām here, it seems best to spend time with the neighbours.
Soooā¦ how do you improve upon free political discussion within well-defined and reasonable rules? I dunno. But I think listening longer and posting slower would be two steps in the right direction. Paying more attention to whatās right and good, and less to whoās wrong would help too.
[spoiler]āThatās right, jadies and lentilmen: they whipped up their own Callahanās Place, out of thin air! Itās called alt.callahansā¦ā
(a roar of astonishment and confusion and glee and outrage and disbeliefā¦which finally morphs into a long rolling wave of laughterā¦ followed by anotherā¦and another)
āNow, I know what many of you want to hear about. You want me to tell you all the countless little ways their Callahanās Place is different from the one you lot used to drink in, and from Maryās Place here. And there are a lot of differences, and maybe we can talk about them another time. But the things I want to tell you first ā the most important things ā are the ways their Callahanās Place is like yours.ā
āDo they make rotten puns there?ā Doc Webster calls.
āDo dey make music dere?ā Fast Eddie asks.
āDo they drink there?ā Long-Drink bellows.
āDo they smash their glasses in the fireplace?ā Tommy Janssen asks, and the rumble of the crowd indicates that he has come closest so far to a good question.
āNone of that is really important,ā Jake Stonebender says, meeting Spiderās eye. āWhat about the important stuff, Spider? Did they get that right?ā
The room falls silent.
Slowly, enjoying the suspense, Spider lets his poker face relax into a crooked smile.
āAs far as I can tell, they did, Jake. At alt.callahans [color=#0040FF]they believe that shared pain is diminished, and that shared joy is increased, just like here. They believe that a snoopy question merits a mild concussion. They help the ones that hurt and make merry with the ones that donāt.[/color]ā
(stunned silence in Maryās Place)
"They care about one another, there, 24-7. They donāt make any magical claims, but they seem to have compassion by the carload, and they value kindness over hipness. And they use a system of communication thatās startlingly like the telepathy you folks are shooting for here. [color=#0040FF]Oh, thereās a social disease rampant in their world with a horrid symptom called āflamingā ā but they suffer far less from it than just about anywhere else in their ficton. First-time visitors are not called the ān-wordā there, for instance, as is customary elsewhere. Just like here, alt.callahans seems to be a place where itās All Right To Be Bright, where itās All Right To Be Dull, where itās all right to be any damn thing at all except a pain in the ass.[/color] You know the Invisible Protective Shield around this place? The magic force field that keeps out the bikers and dealers and predators and drinking alcoholics and kids looking to raise hell? Well, theyāve got one too, called a Sysop.
āAnd yes, they make exceedingly rotten puns there. And some splendid music. And they tell toxic jokes. Donāt tell anybody, but Iāve already pinched a couple.ā
Doc Webster clears his throat. āUhā¦how big a joint are we talking about, Spiderman?ā
Spider grins. āNobody knows. This USENET ficton is a truly weird universe, a snakeās orgy of nodes and channels and webs and threads, and as far as I know there is no truly accurate census, and alt.callahans runs all through it like kudzuā¦and branches off from there to another ficton called ā you wonāt believe this one! ā The Web. But the best guess I heard was, well in excess of 61,000 people are regular patrons. Itās said to be in the top one percent of bars there, by size, and furthermore to be damn near the only one in the top two percent that doesnāt have topless bottomless waitresses and a live donkey show. This Callahanās Place probably couldnāt be destroyed by fifty nukes, all going off at once.ā[/quote][/spoiler]
Since you asked for comments: i see nothing wrong with your speculation about what is possibile now. Look at the number of registered users (especially recently registered users) and see how few of them have been posting until now - things could well develop along the lines you suggest.
I think so, too. The new BBS will develop its own tone and the tone of this one will likely change somewhat. And the corner pub may also be there for years to come.
(I very much suspect that i am not the only one who conveniently uses different BBSs to express different parts of their personality or experiment with different personas. In any case, there is something that i think happens in online commuties exactly as in real life communities: some people get somewhat stuck in a certain behaviour pattern that relates to the reputation they have built up in their community, and when they move into a different community they feel free to behave in different ways and create a different reputation.)
EDIT (later addition): Here is recent example of the kinds of threads that seem to illustrate Jaboneyās point: Stuck
Another (less recent) example i could cite were the (now disappeared) threads started by the Lithuanian rainbow woman.
I donāt feel anybody contributing to the thread i am linking to here as an example has said anything inappropriate as such, yet i think posters like the OP wonāt come back, because young people who sign up to this BBS in the hope to get some advice concerning what they see as a problem they are facing (even assuming for a moment that āweā donāt share their perspective) donāt need a bunch of older people getting in their face and telling them to shape up (theyāve already heard that, thatās why theyāre reaching out this way for advice). A question iād like to see discussed on this BBS is whether āweā care about young people and other newcomers coming on board or whether āweā prefer this to be an in-crowd BBS?
[quote=āJaboneyā]Posted this argument elsewhere. Iād like to know what others think of it. (Iām quite willing to accept that itās a crock for various reasons.)
In the past, lots of prolific posters have left, and from what Iām told, traffic has gone up and up. The tone has changed over timeā¦ particularly in IP. But never have large numbers left at once. Assuming that happens, what next? [/quote]
Iām not sure that traffic going up and up and prolific posters leaving are really cause and effect.
Iām not sure I agree with all of this. In my circle of friends Iām the only one of that group that is a participant on Forumosa. The others donāt participate simply because internet discussion groups arenāt their thing. I also donāt buy into the argument polific posters crowd out participation, quite the opposite it tends to encourage it. After all if this were true wouldnāt Ho be a natural destination for these crowded out folks? Pretty hard to take part in a conversation on a thread where the last post was in 2008.
[quote] I think thereās plenty of opportunity for the sites to evolve in slightly different, complementary ways.
I think thatās a very different situation from what happened with Taiwan Ho, which started with nothing and picked up, it seems, mostly folks with a foot in each camp, and f.com posters in forced exileā¦ which really provided no basis for growth.
Ok, I already see a few holes, but can someone else tell me whatās wrong with the above reasoning?[/quote]
I saw the question posed about the difference between Fcom and Ho. I think the more relavent question is what will the new site offer that is substantially different from what the current sites have to offer.
To Yuliās point it might be fun to try out a new persona on the new site.
[quote]A question iād like to see discussed on this BBS is whether āweā care about young people and other newcomers coming on board or whether āweā prefer this to be an in-crowd BBS?
[/quote]
I know where I stand on that! There again, there are probably HUNDREDS of new posters who Iāve welcomed on here and only a few dozens at most who have been such total arseholes that they deserve nothing but ridicule. Peole seldom remember that, though. They remember the put-downs of some arrogant little twat VERY well, though. Its entertainment.
[quote=āsandmanā][quote]A question Iād like to see discussed on this BBS is whether āweā care about young people and other newcomers coming on board or whether āweā prefer this to be an in-crowd BBS?
[/quote]
I know where I stand on that! There again, there are probably HUNDREDS of new posters who Iāve welcomed on here and only a few dozens at most who have been such total arseholes that they deserve nothing but ridicule. Peole seldom remember that, though. They remember the put-downs of some arrogant little twat VERY well, though. Its entertainment.[/quote]
I think Iām a living example of being welcomed in. Sure, initially there was ridicule, but I dunno, I was accepted somehow into the fold.
in the head??? Like you??? And if you by any chance are insinuating what you are insinuatingā¦STFU![/quote]
See! That sharp tongue and lightining wit had a lot to do with you being accepted into the fold pretty quickly. Many newbs are just too thin skinned at times.
in the head??? Like you??? And if you by any chance are insinuating what you are insinuatingā¦STFU![/quote]
See! That sharp tongue and lightining wit had a lot to do with you being accepted into the fold pretty quickly. Many newbs are just too thin skinned at times.[/quote]
It was blunt at the time and I did get my fair share of my bullying okay. But yes, there were folks who laughed at my jokes and informed me when I was being stupid too.
It would suck if this place went under because it took so long to build up some of the useful information threads. I donāt like change. Change is highly over-rated. Iāve been over to the Mao now and it seems that it is pretty much just Forumosa with a different name. I guess Iāll follow Forumosa and Maoman wherever they go. But which one is the real Forumosa now? Where should we go?
I have two issues with change in this instance. The first is a pet grievance with the existing 'mosa. Iāve never liked the fact some posters do a sneaky name change, or more than one, making redundant any historical knowledge of the poster. Nice way to reconstruct yourself, I suppose, but itās irksome when it appears many know who the old posters are, and their revamped monickers. Perhaps their is some behind the scenes list or some such for the mods?
Anyway, a quick look at the new site and I see who I assume are posters from here with new user names. Frankly, I can;t be arsed tryng to work out who is who. Itās just all too confusing. itās handy to have a username that has some history, as you often know their credibility or otherwise, and what sort of stance they tend to adopt.
I guess Iāll get the inside skinny on why this move was a necessity at some point next time Iām in Taiwan. No idea what it was deemed necessary. I would have aimed for consolidation, not splintering.
Still the upside is that suspended users can probably go hang out and annoy people in either fora. In that sense, it may make suspending posters less of an issue.
I agree with much of what you wrote.
Look at the number of registered users (especially recently registered users) and see how few of them have been posting until now - things could well develop along the lines you suggest.
In any case, there is something that i think happens in online commuties exactly as in real life communities: some people get somewhat stuck in a certain behaviour pattern that relates to the reputation they have built up in their community, and when they move into a different community they feel free to behave in different ways and create a different reputation.)
There again, there are probably HUNDREDS of new posters who Iāve welcomed on here and only a few dozens at most who have been such total arseholes that they deserve nothing but ridicule. Peole seldom remember that, though. They remember the put-downs of some arrogant little twat VERY well, though. Its entertainment.