Are you one of them playing the trick that “ Make a lie short, say the lie ten times, and you can easily make it truth”.
Am my poor English makes me look like idiot to you? Or are there other reasons making you dare to keep explaining what really happened that either documented by court or victims in favor of your beliefs and rituals?
But the way to achieve emptiness might include Incest、Orgy parties、 drinking sperm and menstrual blood 、 Bestiality.
And I also don’t understand why The Kalachakra-Tantra promotes and prophesies a religious war for domination between Buddhists and Judaism, Christianity, Islam? " (Shri Kalachakra I. 154).
And call them “family of the demonic snakes”. (說人家魔蛇一族，就你們最高級?!)
No, I don’t do any of those things either. Please keep saying that I do though. Apparently that is ok, but if I insult you a little my post will be censored. :roflmao:
[quote]And I also don’t understand why The Kalachakra-Tantra promotes and prophesies a religious war for domination between Buddhists and Judaism, Christianity, Islam? " (Shri Kalachakra I. 154).
And call them “family of the demonic snakes”. (說人家魔蛇一族，就你們最高級?!)[/quote]
You’re too much. I don’t know where you got your crappy translation from, but what the indian states is a predication of how this planet’s population will die. In Buddhism populations and planetary systems die cyclically, often due to floods, weapons, famines, winds, etcetc. It happens over and over and over again, just as universal cycles emerge, function for vast amounts of time, then eventually return to compressed states for vast amounts of time. This time the prediction is that war will attempt to overcome significant parts of the population. The opponents do not yet exist, and it is not quite clear from what lineage they will emerge.
That’s precisely correct and for valid reason. First of all, please understand that I have virtually no knowledge of Buddhism and cannot understand much of what is written in this thread. The practices mentioned seem to me to have been recognized even by you here as having at least a minimal basis in fact. I can only make a quick check online of the facts (or lack of facts) behind some allegations (as I did in one instance recently) to see if mention of them falls out of the bounds of civil discourse (IMO it didn’t). The space between what is exaggeration and calumny and what is common and relevant is something I intend, as an impartial moderator (and in the absence of behavior violating our site principles) to leave to the posters on this thread to hash out. The truth will out.
Personal insults are another question which does not IMO require explanation.
I refer you to what I feel are our relevant site principles here:
It’s ok I won’t bother wasting your time explaining, I know its difficult for you since reading these things is like reading about aliens on mars or something.
Suffice to say this thread would not survive 20 seconds on an authentic buddhist board.
It’s just kind of funny to me that an accusation that vajrayana practitioners such as myself commit incest and murder children for their skin etcetc goes unpunished, but if i insist that zeusma’s views are an asian equivalent to being a bigoted redneck or that s/he themselves are, this is forbidden.
It’s ok we’ll see how zeusma wriggles out of this one. This is the trouble with making generalizations, you do eventually end up having to talk about individual people.
[quote=“Confuzius”][b]An empowerment establishes a link between the bestower and receiver, enabling the latter to perform tantric practices.
You may think there is little value to it, but your assessment is 10000% irrelevant[/b]. These mass empowerments have been performed for over a thousand years.
there are other, higher levels of empowerment, but to not call these massive ones empowerments would be to change the meaning and function of the sanskrit term abhiseka based on…um, your own opinion.[/quote]
[color=#0000FF]Confuzius is 100% right![/color]
Triceratopses might be willing to be fooled by erroneous teachings, but please, do spare the others.
It’s good that there are more people who know exactly triceratopses does not know what he is talking about.
There are [color=#0000FF]coarser and subtler [/color]realizations of the 4 arya (noble) truths. There are also many schools who think they’ve realized the highest meaning of prajna when perhaps they have not. [/quote]
Utterly 100000% irrelevent replies!
You are the one who doesn’t know what to talk about.
The subject issue is Prajñāpāramitā.
Prajñāpāramitā itself represents the perfect, transcendent wisdom, therefore it is not worldly speculation as higher, lower, [color=#0000FF]coarser or subtler[/color].
Well, you are mumbling your own opinion, mind you, please don’t get other schools involved.
For your reference, please kindly see the link below.
Despite the fact that most of you are willing to practice the lesser achievement (…99.9999% of practitioners will not reach anything near the type of skill needed for these practices in this lifetime…) , logically speaking, you will certainly join the party in the future reach, right?
Actually, without the true Dharma and personal realization, the more you write, the more flaws you will expose yourself to the public.
In true Buddhist cultivation, practitioners should observe not only the right Dharma itself, but also contemplate a person’s three karma (三業), which are bodily, mental, and verbal behavior.
[quote=“Buddhism”] While Buddhist teachings include the transmundane wisdom of
(1) The absence of intrinsic existence of all phenomena refers to the mundane truth 世俗諦 which represents all formations are impermanent and all dharmas are of no-self.
(2) [color=#0000FF]The absence of the duality of apprehended object and apprehending subject refers to the ultimate truth [/color]勝義諦 which represents the specific characteristic of nirvana, thus its term “tranquility is nirvana.”[/quote]
(Part 2)
[quote=“Buddhism”][quote=“Confuzius”][b]An empowerment establishes a link between the bestower and receiver, enabling the latter to perform tantric practices.
You may think there is little value to it, but your assessment is 10000% irrelevant[/b]. These mass empowerments have been performed for over a thousand years.
there are other, higher levels of empowerment, but to not call these massive ones empowerments would be to change the meaning and function of the sanskrit term abhiseka based on…um, your own opinion.[/quote]
[color=#0000FF]Confuzius is 100% right![/color]
Triceratopses might be willing to be fooled by erroneous teachings, but please, do spare the others.
It’s good that there are more people who know exactly triceratopses does not know what he is talking about.[/quote]
I already dismissed his argument with my counter argument, are you blind?
[quote]The subject issue is Prajñāpāramitā.
Prajñāpāramitā itself represents the perfect, transcendent wisdom, therefore it is not worldly speculation as higher, lower, coarser or subtler.
Well, you are mumbling your own opinion, mind you, please don’t get other schools involved.
For your reference, please kindly see the link below.[/quote]
You don’t even know that the Diamond Sutra is actually called the Diamond Cutter Sutra.
There is overwhelming scholarship on the coarser and subtler realizations of the 4 arya truths that occurs during the path of seeing (darśanamārga).
[quote=“triceratopses”] [quote]The subject issue is Prajñāpāramitā.
Prajñāpāramitā itself represents the perfect, transcendent wisdom, therefore it is not worldly speculation as higher, lower, coarser or subtler.
Well, you are mumbling your own opinion [/quote]
You don’t even know that the Diamond Sutra is actually called the Diamond Cutter Sutra.[/quote]
For your info, in terms of Buddhism, “Prajñāpāramitā” represents the perfect, transcendent wisdom that could provide true wisdom to liberate sentient beings from endless transmigration, not per se the title of the Diamond Sutra.
There are totally more than six hundred fascicles of Prajñāpāramitā sutra teachings, perhaps you’ve only heard of the title of the Diamond Sutra.
I pinpointed that you have no understanding of the meaning or essence of “Prajñāpāramitā,” because you had erroneously phrased Prajñāpāramitā by stating “to generate the highest level of prajanparamita.”
Prajanparamita represents the perfect wisdom, therefore it has no worldly level, category or the superlative form.
Besides, what’s the point of raising an irrelevant issue of a sutra’s name?
Again, you are not giving any decent reply.
Please don’t forget, the topic of this thread is The Bodhi Way, hence a valid counter argument needs to be Buddhist teachings instead of your own opinion.
(Part 3)
[quote=“Buddhism”]Besides, what’s the point of raising an irrelevant issue of a sutra’s name?
Again, you are not giving any decent reply.[/quote]
I told you to take a look at the scholarship on the topic. There are several schools which assert that for example during the path of preparation there is cognition of emptiness under the influence of bodhichitta. However since this is not the direct perception of emptiness under the influence of bodhichitta, which would be subtlest realization of the 4 arya truths, they are coarser realizations.
Also there is much to be said that actually the clearest realization of the arya truths occurs at the time of buddhahood. Prior to that, the realization of the arya truths is subtlest at the time of the 6th bodhisattva bhuumi, which is considerably more subtle than the realization of newly born aryas on the path of seeing.
Lastly even schools that do not even accept emptiness but accept only momentariness, or only momentariness and that mental factors are imputed, are argued by some to be coarse realization of the arya truths. If you listen to a real Theravadin practitioner, they can explain very explicitly and meaningfully how they realize the 16 aspects of the 4 arya truths. The problem for us is that they think this is as subtle as it can go. As the realized practitioners of the higher schools are aware, the realization can go much deeper and realize subtler aspects of the arya truths.
Please don’t forget, the topic of this thread is The Bodhi Way, hence a valid counter argument needs to be Buddhist teachings instead of your own opinion.
(Part 3)[/quote]
Try to follow what is being said. My argument was not opinion it was based on the function of how vows are formed in the minds of people, as i already explained. Contrary to Confuzius’ assertion that merely being present is enough to form the vows, this is actually not the case at all in any tenet system of buddhism.
Thus my original position that attending an empowerment actually functions as a blessing for the vast majority of people who attend such things remains unharmed.
Do a search for “eating the body of Christ” and “drinking the blood of Christ”, and you will find at least a minimal basis in fact, as well.
“Fact” means different things to different people…
EDIT: not to mention the practice of “becoming a bride of Christ”
The internet is not a good source of understanding of everything.
I would find that a religious sect claims to perform these acts in a mystical ceremony, though I’m not sure what difference my doing so would make.
[quote]“Fact” means different things to different people…
EDIT: not to mention the practice of “becoming a bride of Christ”
The internet is not a good source of understanding of everything. [/quote]
You’ve missed my point. I did not intend to gain an understanding of anything through such a process–that’s a laughable suggestion. I only attempted to see if any basis existed for discussion of a contentious issue, or if it seemed to be totally spurious.
There is a basis for the assertion that there are practices involving the sexual organs. However there is 0 basis for any of the following assertions they have made based on this.
In particular there is no basis for the assertion that the entire lineage is involved in such things when in actuality it is an extremely rare thing. The way a maths prodigy might come only once a generation likewise there are almost no people capable of doing these practice correctly, and has nothing to do with 99.999% of practitioners. It’s a complete strawman argument to push their agenda of tarnishing the lineage as a whole.
“Sexual abuse is always covered up in these western Tibetan sanghas because to actually face it, unlike in other Buddhist sects, would be to confront the [color=#0000FF]institutionalized’ sexual exploitation of women[/color] that has always been part of the teachings of the Hindu Tibetan Buddhist Tantra. It is built upon the sexual exploitation of women as ‘bliss partners’ to the Lamas and defines the very ‘end’ path of [color=#0000FF]Tantra’s medieval practices.[/color]
“Tantra was clearly never meant to be ‘institutionalized’ as a ‘religion’ as these Tibetan Lamas have done, while covering it over with Mahayana Buddhism to mystify whole groups of people and keep them under their ‘thrall’."
Triceratopses, you might believe otherwise, but there are plenty of concrete evidences on this thread or through web search to prove your statement wrong.
The article you cite is a perfect example. It can only name a couple of people amongst the millions of Vajrayana practitioners. Period. End of thread, you have nothing left to say. You proved yourself wrong.
The rest of the article is just foolish and an insult to my intelligence to read it a second time. It’s very bad.
Also you need a few lessons on logic. Just because someone asserts that tantra is a bunch of “medieval hindu practices” does not make it so. Your opinion on tantra from my point of view is as stupid as 99% of this forum’s opinion of samadhi is. When they think of meditation or samadhi some foolish idea comes to mind, because they don’t know any better. Your view of tantra is like that.
It takes 6 months for a decent practitioner to go from nothing to shamata.
From there it takes 18 months to find the inner channels which are used for general tantric practice.
It requires even more skill and more time to learn to work with the channels necessary for consort practice.
You should find one of these practitioners and talk to them, maybe then you will get a clue about what is going on.
What good to achieve emptiness or being a Buddhist as a person use so much disdainful words such as stupied、foolish to derogate those who you think are mavericks?
Buddhism should advocate peace, harmony instead of aggression like malignant carcinoma cells or calculating politicians. Just like your leader Dalai Lama said: “Because we all share this small planet earth . “ isn’t it?
As to the 6 moths 、12 moths what ever it’s takes for shamata、tantric practice、learn for consort practice, according to precepts you have (三昧耶戒), eventually, not only student has to drink semen and menstrual blood from intercourse, but has to be “with great respect”. Or he breaks the precept. Please close your eyes, image in your mind, what kinds of picture will be? Holding some drink, with great respect and then pour sticky liquid into the mouth!
One of the latest publications by the Foundation: Expounding the Reality Prajñāpāramitā Sutra in the Chan Way, Vol. 6
實相經宗通 – 第六輯
ISBN 978-986-5655-06-8
Dec. 2014
Did Buddha Shakyamuni gain any sort of Buddhist scholarship?
From your replies, every true Buddhist practitioner can doubtlessly see that you have no idea about the subject issue of Prajñāpāramitā, apart from your scant reading from papers plus plenty of your fancy imagination.
Alas, in terms of Buddhism, no worldly being is able to imagine the unfathomable Prajñāpāramitā.
Your posts and attitude show us how vital it is to have a truly virtuous mentor for Buddhist practice.
[quote=“triceratopses”]
From there it takes 18 months to find the inner channels which are used for general tantric practice.
It requires even more skill and more time to learn to work with the channels necessary for consort practice.[/quote]
Are you still taking some sort of the “mission impossible” practice? (Part 4)
No, perhaps you don’t understand how vows etc works. The teacher can say and do whatever they are saying and doing, that is only part of the process. The other part is the student must be fit to actually form the vows etc in their own minds. Obviously the latter does not happen in mass “empowerments”, only the teacher is playing his/her role.
[/quote]
This is not true.
Give me a scriptural or scholarly reference for this. However, I know you will not as this is NOTHING more than your own opinion.
I hate to break it you…but you are not qualified to:
redefine a sanskrit term
say what “is” and what “isn’t” such and such religious practice.
You simply do not have that authority. Guess what? I don’t either, which is why I am sticking to established facts.
However, you seem to think you do. Unless you can provide a scriptural or scholarly reference to back up these additional requirements for a practice to be considered an “abhiseka”, then you should seriously shut up, sit down, read and learn.
Since you will be 10000% unable to provide such a reference, learn a bit of humility and then…continue learning.
No, perhaps you don’t understand how vows etc works. The teacher can say and do whatever they are saying and doing, that is only part of the process. The other part is the student must be fit to actually form the vows etc in their own minds. Obviously the latter does not happen in mass “empowerments”, only the teacher is playing his/her role.
[/quote]
This is not true.
Give me a scriptural or scholarly reference for this. However, I know you will not as this is NOTHING more than your own opinion.
I hate to break it you…but you are not qualified to:
redefine a sanskrit term
say what “is” and what “isn’t” such and such religious practice.
You simply do not have that authority. Guess what? I don’t either, which is why I am sticking to established facts.
However, you seem to think you do. Unless you can provide a scriptural or scholarly reference to back up these additional requirements for a practice to be considered an “abhiseka”, then you should seriously shut up, sit down, read and learn.
Since you will be 10000% unable to provide such a reference, learn a bit of humility and then…continue learning.[/quote]
If you think vows can be established in the minds of people without their forming the intention to do so, you are almost not worth talking to about this subject. Vows whether they are tantric empowerments or common refuge vows rely on intention and other mental factors for the formation of vows. Because the majority of people at large so-called empowerments have no idea what is happening or what they are supposed to be doing, by definition they are not receiving an empowerment, and thus the general activity functions more as a blessing. You can say “this is not true” as much as you like.
Berzinarchives has listed for vows: "(1) In the Sautrantika, Chittamatra, and Madhyamaka schools other than Gelug Prasangika, the subsidiary awareness (mental factor) to restrain from a certain type of detrimental behavior, which, during a specific ceremony, one has formally promised to restrain from. (2) In the Vaibhashika and Gelug-Prasangika systems, a non-revealing form on a person’s mental continuum that performs the same function as in (1) by shaping one’s behavior.
Similarly in “Taking the Kalachakra Initiation” we find:
[quote]As with bodhisattva vows, there are root and secondary tantric vows, which we promise to keep until reaching enlightenment and which continue on our mental continuums into future lives. The Gelug, Kagyu, and Sakya traditions confer these vows with any empowerment (dbang, initiation), subsequent permission (rjes-snang, permission), or mantra-gathering (sngags-btus) for any practice from one of the two higher classes of tantra – yoga or anuttarayoga – according to their fourfold classification scheme.
Most details from the discussion of bodhisattva vows pertain to the tantric vows as well.
The root tantric vows are to refrain from fourteen actions which, if committed with the four binding factors (kun-dkris bzhi), constitute a root downfall (sngags-kyi rtsa-ltung) and precipitate a loss of the tantric vows. Without these vows shaping our lives, we cannot gain attainments or realizations from tantric practice. This is because our practice will lack the necessary supporting context. Except for one of the tantric root downfall actions, giving up bodhichitta – the same as with the root bodhisattva vows – a transgression of any of the other thirteen, without the four binding factors being complete, merely weakens the tantric vows. It does not eliminate them from our mental continuums.[/quote]
A commentary to Je Tsongkhapa’s Essence of the Ocean of Discipline ('Dul-ba rgya-mtso’i snying-po) says,
[quote]It, meaning the basic nature of the individual freedom vows, is physical and
verbal karma. According to the Abhidharma School this karma is a kind of
invisible and ineffable physical matter. The Consequence section of the Middle
Way School also assert that it is physical matter. The others—meaning the
Sutrists, the Mind-Only School, and the Independent Section of the MiddleWay
School—say that it is the continued intention to give up [bad deeds], along
with the seed of this intention. Thus this verse explains that even in our own
Buddhist schools, two dissimilar positions are asserted on this point in the tenets
of the higher and lower schools.
The “invisible and ineffable form” mentioned above is explained as follows.
In the first moment that the vows are taken, they consist of form which
communicates the intent of the person taking the vows. After that moment
they become a type of form which does not communicate this intent.
On the other hand the “intention to give up [the bad deeds]” is explained as
being mental, and “its seed” is explained as being a changing thing.[/quote]
In “Taking the Kalachakra Initiation” on berzincharchives we find,
