[quote]China Southern Airlines Co. and Taiwan’s China Airlines Ltd. have signed a landmark deal to cooperate in launching direct-charter flights between the mainland and Taiwan, according to a media report Tuesday.
Under the agreement, the routes must pass through Hong Kong airspace, and the report quoted China Southern Chairman Liu Shaoyang as saying the service would waste fuel because of the circuitous routes involved, a particular difficulty in light of high oil prices. [/quote]
With oil at $125-$135 a barrel people want to still have a symbolic fly over HK. Let the average Taiwanese, that wants to do their part in saving the planet, say that has to be the dumbest thing I’ve heard so far.
I would prefer to be on an 1 hour flight instead of a 2 hour flight. Although you do get a movie and a meal on a 2 hour flight.
That’s because if they flew directly they could be filled with bombs and not tourists. That couldn’t happen if they flew over Chinese controlled Hong Kong.
So how do you transfer the control of the airplane?
If China and Taiwan agree to disagree on agreeing over how the flights should be controlled, then the only choice is for the flights to go over some other aerial space (that can also be Korea or Japan).
So, anyone knows if the flights will be international or domestic?
In the end, so much for the tourists, as it will only bring about 0.5% growth to Taiwan (if one remembers, delaying for 6 months the budget last year cost the country about 1% growth). This will make the growth get closer to the 6% Ma was talking about… he just needs to find source for the rest 1%+ still missing…
One thing that is not being talked but should be asked: Will there be a huge increase in street cleaners around the country to fight against the hordes of Chinese Tourists coming? This is also a way of decreasing the unemployment rate to the 3% Ma promised…
[quote=“mr_boogie”]So how do you transfer the control of the airplane?
If China and Taiwan agree to disagree on agreeing over how the flights should be controlled, then the only choice is for the flights to go over some other aerial space (that can also be Korea or Japan).
So, anyone knows if the flights will be international or domestic?[/quote]
Will you be surprised if I tell you that flights between Hong Kong and mainland China are treated as international flights? Seems to me this piece of information has to be shocking news to you. But yes, Hong Kong-China(as well as Hong Kong-Taiwan)flights are indeed treated as international flights, and surely China-Taiwan flights can be treated the same.
But lets just assume for a moment that the two sides can’t agree on the direct flights being international or domestic. Are you saying that planes can’t fly without putting a label on the route? Is there no way for a plane to fly from point A to point B without calling the flights either international or domestic? If so, what’s the label on the direct flight with a flyover to HK? What about the direct chartered flights that had flown for some time now? Are they international or domestic? Pretty obvious this issue with “control of planes” you referred to is not a technical issue but entirely a political one.
So if Taiwan is simply seeking to put a label on the flight that suits its political ideaology(similar to how Taiwan wanted to be labeled as part of the “international leg” during the Olympic torch relay, despite the fact that relay routes aren’t even categorized into “international” or “domestic”), they’ve got it. I’m no aviation expert, but the most logical and efficient route between two points is the one with the shortest distance in between. It’s simply unconscionable for Taiwan to insist on a symbolic flyover to HK during the so called direct flights for utterly no good reason at all.
Grim, scared looking, People Liberation Airforce pilots would start to smile, tease each other, be helpful to customers and give a shit about safety as they crossed the boundary from PRC territory to Taiwanese territory.
I just read somewhere that the airlines on both sides of the straits are very much looking forward to these flights (tempted to say frights…but I wont) because the distance is domestic but the ticket pricing is international.
OH and I just did two ounces of thinking and came to the conclusion that Taiwan is not going to be overrun by hordes of mainlanders because there wont be more the 30,000 at any one time. 3000 a day limited to ten days. So 30,000 mainlanders in TAiwan?? You wouldnt even notice on this island of some 23 million.
Thats nearly one in a thousand.
So all these people afraid all the spots will be taken, whatever, no worries mate.
[quote=“mr_boogie”]
One thing that is not being talked but should be asked: Will there be a huge increase in street cleaners around the country to fight against the hordes of Chinese Tourists coming? [/quote]
Littering is nothing compared to Hepatitis A and other communicable diseases prevalent on the mainland that may be carried over to this small island of Formosa.
[quote=“Incubus”][quote=“mr_boogie”]
One thing that is not being talked but should be asked: Will there be a huge increase in street cleaners around the country to fight against the hordes of Chinese Tourists coming? [/quote]
Littering is nothing compared to Hepatitis A and other communicable diseases prevalent on the mainland that may be carried over to this small island of Formosa.[/quote]
Doesn’t Taiwan deport foreigners with nasty diseases?
EDIT: actually it looks like they have reduced the list
Also… as of 2005
The conditions for which you can be deported - announced in 2000 - have, as of 2005, been reduced from 21 to 5. Mainly because some of the diseases among the 21 respond to treatment and others are rarely seen.
1.) Amoebic dysentery
2.) Pulmonary tuberculosis
3.) Leprosy
4.) Syphilis
5.) AIDS
[/quote]
Not Hep A it seems. The whole policy seems flawed to me though, because it would discourage people being tested. Actually I read in the Daily Mail recently that immigrants are bringing disease to the UK, drug resistant TB for example
What I’d be more worried about in Taiwan is the strange self censorship syndrome anyone who plans to spend time in China has. E.g. I know a TWese guy who’s going to be posted to Beijing who won’t talk about politics anymore. He seemed quite friendly and interested in it when I first arrived. Very sad.
[quote=“tommy525”]I just read somewhere that the airlines on both sides of the straits are very much looking forward to these flights (tempted to say frights…but I wont) because the distance is domestic but the ticket pricing is international.
OH and I just did two ounces of thinking and came to the conclusion that Taiwan is not going to be overrun by hordes of mainlanders because there wont be more the 30,000 at any one time. 3000 a day limited to ten days. So 30,000 mainlanders in TAiwan?? You wouldnt even notice on this island of some 23 million.
Thats nearly one in a thousand.
So all these people afraid all the spots will be taken, whatever, no worries mate.[/quote]
you will see them though if you go to certain spots…i.e. 101, yangmingshan, maokong gondola, shilin nite market…you’ll see them and you’ll hear them and you’ll think to yourself, what a wonderful world…
I was having a massage in Schenzen and the girl told me Taiwan is not part of China… something must be wrong with her…
Anyway… the hotel had something I never saw anywhere else: condoms in the room… of course, no westerner could use them for their known purpose…
I’ve saw my share of chinese tourists in my life…
when you see them (first you hear them, then you rotate to see what the ruckus is about) you wonder if that is really the kind of tourists you want…
I saw a news some days ago about the fact that Chinese not going to visit France was bad for France economy, and then they go to interview the Chinese Tourist Guides in France…
It is like asking “Is the Euro going to ruin the European Economy” to a Travelex agent in the middle of Europe…
[quote=“mr_boogie”]I was having a massage in Schenzen and the girl told me Taiwan is not part of China… something must be wrong with her…
Anyway… the hotel had something I never saw anywhere else: condoms in the room… of course, no westerner could use them for their known purpose…[/quote]
I’ve got a friend in Sweden who was born in Hungary and he told me that back in the Communist days everyone just assumed everything the government said was a lie. Of course they new after 1956 that it was a bad idea to try to confront the government.
He said that when he was in school the system changed and his history teacher told the class that it was pointless having history lessons because the stuff they were about to be taught was all lies. So they actually cancelled history lessons while the books were rewritten to say the rebels in 1956 were right and the government was wrong.
Come to think of it, China now and Hungary before the fall of communism seem quite similar. The problem is that the Hungarian uprising was put down by the Russians so once they decided to stop interfering the Communists in Hungary basically gave up. The Tiananmen square uprising was put down domestically so that can’t happen.
They are gonna let students from China study in TAiwan too. That means a lot of the local meimeis will end up being married off to China. But we will likely get some nice Chinese girls in return?
Some of you guys hoping to meet up with some hot Taiwan lass and get residency that way will have to make sure they are Taiwanese first and not Chinese. And I have met one Chinese girl who (very prettygirl too) looked 100pct TAiwanese, spoke 100pct TAiwan mandarin and yet never set foot on Taiwan.
144 flights are scheduled for July. My goodness, that’s about 5 flights a day. I guess things move fast when there is so much political will to make things happen.
It is a technical issue, all airlines belong to the International Air Traffic Association, the governing body that controls the air industry, must lodge a flight number for all flights, and the numbering must be different between International and Domestic flights. This also helps airports to determine which terminals etc are required where International flights are handled differently to Domestic especially as International not only calls for passport control but baggage screening and additional security in the wake of 9/11. Domestic flights are not necessarily subject to the same restrictions.
Charter flights can be given a third set where approved. The current charter flights between China and Taiwan are international, as the aircraft must pass through HK airspace, which as you mention are therefore international flights.
As an add on, the current impasse that was over direct flights was one purely of Taiwan making, as it was Taiwan that refused permission for Chinese aircraft to overfly Taiwan airspace, China had no similar restrictions, but could not agree to direct flights without basically 50% of those flights being conducted by PRC airlines
