The Crazy Ex

So I’m sure I’m not the first one to be writing about an ex, and looking for legal help but here it is. I came to Taiwan with/for my now ex and we split up about a week ago. Last weekend she showed up at my apartment and refused to leave, she’s called me over 100 times this week (not exaggerating) and I just found out she is taking the bus down from Taipei once again to see me, I’m in Kaohsiung. The first legal question is if I can get a restraining order as a foreigner without his ARC. I’m on a temporary visa for the time being, though I will be getting the ARC in a few weeks since I just took a new job. She has threatened me via email/phone/text message, saying she is going to show up at my new job, call the cops on me (for no reason I swear), and get me kicked out of my apartment as I will explain next. She has also refused to leave my apartment when I asked her nicely too. Though this has been horrible in itself, I am getting the impression that it is just the beginning. I can’t sleep at night and don’t know my legal rights here.

The second question is more complex. She helped me find my new apartment through a friends mom. We don’t have a contract, just a verbal agreement of 12,000 NT /month and a 20,000 NT deposit. My ex has threatened that if I don’t stay with her, she is going to tell the owner who doesn’t speak any English that I am a bad person and make sure I get kicked out immediately. Assuming that my ex does convince the owner of me being a bad guy, can she just kick me out on the street after taking my monthly rent only a few days ago? What will the cops due if they are called? Again not ARC, at least not yet.

I know that there is the law, and then there is what really happens with the law. If anyone has knowledge or advice I would really really appreciate it, or possibly an agency that I could call. I can’t find anything that fits my situation and I don’t know what to do. I’m out of my league and honestly a bit scared of what is going to happen.

From her reaction, it sounds more like you split up with her. Word to the wise: it’s best to wait until you get your ARC before breaking off a relationship.

By the way, you refer to her as merely your “ex”. Is she an ex-gf or a separated wife? To get the best advice, you’ll need to specify.

[quote=“coladag”]The first legal question is if I can get a restraining order as a foreigner without his ARC. I’m on a temporary visa for the time being, though I will be getting the ARC in a few weeks since I just took a new job. She has threatened me via email/phone/text message, saying she is going to show up at my new job, call the cops on me (for no reason I swear), and get me kicked out of my apartment as I will explain next.[/quote]My understanding is that it’s tough to get a restraining order under the best of circumstances. You’re fresh off the boat, and you’re working illegally – not the best of circumstances.

[quote=“coladag”]If anyone has knowledge or advice I would really really appreciate it, or possibly an agency that I could call. I can’t find anything that fits my situation and I don’t know what to do. I’m out of my league and honestly a bit scared of what is going to happen.[/quote]Got any friends you can stay with? Anything valuable in the apartment she might trash if she gets in when you’re not there?

If you can avoid her by avoiding the apartment, great. If not, protect yourself. Meet in public. Record it.

You are in a no win situation if you stay at your current place.

If you want out of the relationship but she won’t leave, then you must leave.

I would find a new place and don’t tell her where you live. This should solve your problem.

If you have no lease, you can just walk away.

Gonna cost you anyway you look at it.

I don’t think a restraining order or anything the courts/police can do is going to help.

You could also hire some gangsters to scare her a bit, but that will also cost you.

I suggest growing a pair and learn how to handle your woman. this is the free solution to the problem.

BTW, How are you going to get an ARC without a written lease? This is an absolute necessity.

T

From her reaction, it sounds more like you split up with her. Word to the wise: it’s best to wait until you get your ARC before breaking off a relationship.

I’m not worried about the ARC, I have a job lined up and staying with a person I don’t want to be with should really have nothing to do with being legal. Also, she is my ex-girlfriend not wife and we hadn’t even been dating for very long.

By the way, you refer to her as merely your “ex”. Is she an ex-gf or a separated wife? To get the best advice, you’ll need to specify.[/quote]

[quote=“achdizzy1099”]You are in a no win situation if you stay at your current place.

If you want out of the relationship but she won’t leave, then you must leave.

I would find a new place and don’t tell her where you live. This should solve your problem.

If you have no lease, you can just walk away.

Gonna cost you anyway you look at it.

I don’t think a restraining order or anything the courts/police can do is going to help.

You could also hire some gangsters to scare her a bit, but that will also cost you.

I suggest growing a pair and learn how to handle your woman. this is the free solution to the problem.

BTW, How are you going to get an ARC without a written lease? This is an absolute necessity.

T[/quote]

Thanks for writing but seriously “grow a pair” the girl threatened herself, I might have failed to mention. Were way past the point of telling her to just back off, not when I don’t want to push her off the edge. You don’t need a lease to get an ARC, just an address, bank account and health report. The ARC is coming next week, I’m on a visitors visa for the moment as I wrote. Also, I’m looking for legal knowledge, otherwise I would be bitching about my problems in a different forum :slight_smile:

I’m not a lawyer, but you’re a non-entity so far as 95% of the police are concerned. Except insofar as you’re working illegally… a fair number will be interested in that.

I do not believe there are legal solutions available to you.

There are legal options but going that route can potentially aggravate your situation. Get a new place and a new job if she knows where you work. Then send her a friendly email to say goodbye and pretend you are leaving the country for good. If she thinks you left, she will not look for you.

Good luck.

Sound advice; I knew a guy who’s girl got let into his place by the landlord and took his passport. And regardless of what you think the law is, you have a relationship with her, so you will have a very hard time trying to get any recourse (you don’t speak the language, do you?) if things go even further south…be smart and careful with that one, she sounds like a firecracker…

Having been through something similar and now emerging fairly well from the other side, I’d suggest (some of which is repeated excellent advice from others here):

  1. Get the fuck out of there now and change your phone number. Worst that can happen is that you lose NT$32000 - if you let it ride, it could get a lot worse than that. Get your valuables (PASSPORT!) out of the way. And next time make sure you have a contract. If you don’t speak Chinese, is there someone at work can help you? I can imagine it’s not easy if you’re “on your own”. Anyway, don’t be afraid to tell a good friend what’s going on. You need a bit of moral support.

  2. Call her bluff. “I’m going to kill myself” is textbook psycho xiaojie (and I’m convinced there IS a textbook). Mine pulled the same shit and she’s still alive. If she decides to actually do it - and 99.999% she won’t - that’s her decision, not yours. Same with coming to the office; if she actually does that (I bet she won’t, because she’ll make herself look like a freak in front of lots of people) ignore her and she will either go away (eventually), or the staff will call the police. Don’t be blackmailed or you will find yourself in deep, deep trouble. If she comes to your flat shouting and screaming, tell her to fuck off, get angry and aggressive, but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get violent. Apart from the fact that men don’t hit women, you will find the full weight of the law coming down on you like a ton of bricks.

  3. Don’t imagine the law will protect you. If you are married (you need to clarify) it could get sticky. The only advantage you have is that, if you married in Taiwan, a Taiwanese marriage is not recognised as such elsewhere. If you were to leave, any judgements about alimony etc (I assume you don’t have kids) would be unenforceable in another country.

Good luck!

One should be very careful about telling people to fuck off. The use of those words or similar ones when others can hear could get someone into substantial trouble here for “public insult.”

One should be very careful about telling people to fuck off. The use of those words or similar ones when others can hear could get someone into substantial trouble here for “public insult.”[/quote]

Well, only in public. I specifically meant if she comes to his flat and starts being abusive; try being abusive back. Worked for me (to my complete amazement). I can’t help thinking that a classic psycho xiaojie has a screwed-up opinion of what a “real man” is. If you treat them with respect, they’ll walk all over you; treat them like dirt and they back off. I hate behaving like that, but it achieved the desired result, and more importantly, I only had to do it once or twice.

[quote]You could also hire some gangsters to scare her a bit, but that will also cost you.
[/quote]

Er, no you couldn’t. Sorry, I call bullshit on the whole “gangster” option. It’s just hot air and myth perpetuated by foreigners in bars. The overwhelming majority of westerners wouldn’t have either the language and cultural skills or connections to successfully use a “gangster” option. Those who possibly could would know better. Even if you could find “gangsters” willing to get involved in a lover’s spat between a local and foreigner, it would be almost guaranteed to make things worse.

Many landlords will sign rental agreements with passports used as ID. The landlord likely wouldn’t be arsed about what the ex said, as long as he got paid. I’d ask a local friend or work associate to explain things to the landlord.

[quote]If you are married (you need to clarify) it could get sticky. The only advantage you have is that, if you married in Taiwan, a Taiwanese marriage is not recognised as such elsewhere. If you were to leave, any judgements about alimony etc (I assume you don’t have kids) would be unenforceable in another country.
[/quote]

Is this fact or expat lore? When I got married, my country’s trade office told me no extra step to register the marriage in my home country was necessary as my government recognizes legal marriages from Taiwan.

And as far as the rest, OP isn’t illegal. He’s a legal visitor whose ARC and work permit are pending. He’ll be fine.

My advice to OP would be to reach out to the people around you. Explain your situation to your employer and ask for someone to talk to the ex. Also, do go to the police if she does persist in bothering you. Talk to the foreign affairs section. They are obliged to help you. Getting called to the police station will more than likely cool your ex down. In the end, I predict things will simply get better for you. Your ex will eventually cool off and leave you alone.

Final piece of advice is, ironically, not to take too much advice from foreigners on issues like these. The majority of foreigners don’t know their arse from their elbows when it comes to local issues like this.

[quote=“Toasty”][quote]You could also hire some gangsters to scare her a bit, but that will also cost you.
[/quote]

Er, no you couldn’t. Sorry, I call bullshit on the whole “gangster” option. It’s just hot air and myth perpetuated by foreigners in bars. The overwhelming majority of westerners wouldn’t have either the language and cultural skills or connections to successfully use a “gangster” option. Those who possibly could would know better. Even if you could find “gangsters” willing to get involved in a lover’s spat between a local and foreigner, it would be almost guaranteed to make things worse.

Many landlords will sign rental agreements with passports used as ID. The landlord likely wouldn’t be arsed about what the ex said, as long as he got paid. I’d ask a local friend or work associate to explain things to the landlord.

[quote]If you are married (you need to clarify) it could get sticky. The only advantage you have is that, if you married in Taiwan, a Taiwanese marriage is not recognised as such elsewhere. If you were to leave, any judgements about alimony etc (I assume you don’t have kids) would be unenforceable in another country.
[/quote]

Is this fact or expat lore? When I got married, my country’s trade office told me no extra step to register the marriage in my home country was necessary as my government recognizes legal marriages from Taiwan.

And as far as the rest, OP isn’t illegal. He’s a legal visitor whose ARC and work permit are pending. He’ll be fine.

My advice to OP would be to reach out to the people around you. Explain your situation to your employer and ask for someone to talk to the ex. Also, do go to the police if she does persist in bothering you. Talk to the foreign affairs section. They are obliged to help you. Getting called to the police station will more than likely cool your ex down. In the end, I predict things will simply get better for you. Your ex will eventually cool off and leave you alone.

Final piece of advice is, ironically, not to take too much advice from foreigners on issues like these. The majority of foreigners don’t know their arse from their elbows when it comes to local issues like this.[/quote]
Its not often that I feel compelled to agree with Toasty, seeing as he’s a moron and I stongly – STRONGLY! – suspect he might be a ginge, but he’s spot on the money with this one. Spot on.

A foreigner hiring local thugs to put a scare into a local gal. That’s bound to go over reallllllly well. :doh: :laughing:

I’m guessing that after hearing her side of the story, they’d return to beat you to a pulp and they would, you guessed it, keep the “fee.”

[quote=“sandman”]
Its not often that I feel compelled to agree with Toasty, seeing as he’s a moron and I stongly – STRONGLY! – suspect he might be a
ginge
, but he’s spot on the money with this one. Spot on.[/quote]

Who? Me?

Not sure what happened, but sounds like she is hurt, angry and a totally unbalanced, be careful. Hopefully you didn’t do anything terrible to her. She can say whatever she wants to the police and the community to seek revenge, sounds like she is the vindictive type. You need complete abstinence for a AT LEAST six months. No texts, chats, visits, nothing! It is simply not possible to be friends at this point, that will probably be on offer in the near future in an attempt to get back with you. You may be able to be friends in the future, but probably not. As far as the threats, if you don’t talk to her, you can not hear them, she wants you to engage her. Save all messages from her, you may need them. Self-pity must be the worst human emotion. It may be a good idea to stay away from other women for now, you are single, but certainly not free yet. You wouldn’t want to drag anyone else into this mess.

How is she getting in? Does she have a key? You won’t be kicked out immediately, but probably a good idea to look for something else when you get some cash sorted.

[quote=“coladag”]So I’m sure I’m not the first one to be writing about an ex, and looking for legal help but here it is. I came to Taiwan with/for my now ex and we split up about a week ago. Last weekend she showed up at my apartment and refused to leave, she’s called me over 100 times this week (not exaggerating) and I just found out she is taking the bus down from Taipei once again to see me, I’m in Kaohsiung. The first legal question is if I can get a restraining order as a foreigner without his ARC. I’m on a temporary visa for the time being, though I will be getting the ARC in a few weeks since I just took a new job. She has threatened me via email/phone/text message, saying she is going to show up at my new job, call the cops on me (for no reason I swear), and get me kicked out of my apartment as I will explain next. She has also refused to leave my apartment when I asked her nicely too. Though this has been horrible in itself, I am getting the impression that it is just the beginning. I can’t sleep at night and don’t know my legal rights here.

The second question is more complex. She helped me find my new apartment through a friends mom. We don’t have a contract, just a verbal agreement of 12,000 NT /month and a 20,000 NT deposit. My ex has threatened that if I don’t stay with her, she is going to tell the owner who doesn’t speak any English that I am a bad person and make sure I get kicked out immediately. Assuming that my ex does convince the owner of me being a bad guy, can she just kick me out on the street after taking my monthly rent only a few days ago? What will the cops due if they are called? Again not ARC, at least not yet.

I know that there is the law, and then there is what really happens with the law. If anyone has knowledge or advice I would really really appreciate it, or possibly an agency that I could call. I can’t find anything that fits my situation and I don’t know what to do. I’m out of my league and honestly a bit scared of what is going to happen.[/quote]

sounds like you’re in a crappy situation. Unless you have documented proof that the property owner took your deposit and rent, it will be hard to prove. If you can, get a bank account and pay through ATM transfer, or have her sign a printed chart when you fork over the rent.

You won’t be able to get a restraining order. Are you working kindergarten? If you are, then it’s illegal even if you have an ARC at the school. If you teach only older kids and adults, you’re probably okay, as long as you are working at the very exact school that is on your ARC. You will definitely need to confirm this. Sometimes chain schools will send you off to work in another branch. However, employers will sometimes choose to fire foreigners if someone makes too much of a fuss. Like screaming outside the school every day.

Change the locks and do not let her in, ever. If she goes in, tears her clothes up and runs out crying and screaming, there is a high chance you will be really, really screwed. Be sure to triple lock your doors at all times. If you have a building security guard, show him your ex’s photo and make sure it’s clear that she should never be let in.

Document all contact you have with her. You will very likely need it later when she begins to get even crazier and maybe make false claims about you beating/raping/cheating on her. Keep any emails in a secure place. If you have a computer at your house that she has access to, do virus/malware/spyware scans in case she has installed a keylogger or something similar on your computer. Change ALL of your passwords at once, to something that is impossible for her to guess, and remember to change the security questions too, if there is any likelihood at all that she could guess them. If you use gmail, you can find "Last account activity: " at the bottom of the page and see the details link next to it. Click that and check to see if there has been any suspicious log ons. Even if there hasn’t, sign out of all other sessions. Do this for all accounts. If you don’t have a log-on password, set one and make sure it’s not 1234 or something guessable like that. If she breaks into your apartment, you don’t want her wiping your computer or using it to send out emails to your friends and family.

Take her calls only when you have the means to record your conversations. Put it on loudspeaker and use your computer/mp3 player to record or install call recording software on your phone. This is very, very important if it escalates into a he says/she says situation.

DO NOT meet her in private under any circumstance. If she shows up at your door, call the cops. If you meet her in private, sooner or later she will pull some kind of stunt. If she jumps off the balcony of your house after you try to pull her off and leave marks, you could be tried for murder. Just don’t give in to her pounding, screaming, calling, whatever.

If you have to meet her for some reason, be sure to arrange to meet at a very public place with a video camera pointed directly where you two will be standing/sitting and carry an unobtrusive recording device. If she calls you names in public, you can take legal action or say you will do so to get her off your back.

Keep evidence of all contact she makes meticulously and make sure she cannot access, erase or delete it. Save a copy online (dropbox), put it on a USB drive and hide it.

You will never be just friends. Don’t even entertain that thought. Dogs will never stop eating shit. Unless you want to be used and abused every day for the rest of your life, don’t even think about getting back together with her.

Some excellent advice from lupillus there - basically, the law is there to protect Taiwanese citizens and not you, but even Taiwanese people have terrible trouble getting abuse or harrassment taken seriously.

The best you can hope for is for the police to usher her quietly out of earshot if she makes a fuss outside your home/school. If she cries rape or violence, she will be taken at her word (partly because such things are rightly taken seriously in Taiwan, but also because you’re a dirty foreigner and she is a pure Taiwanese girl). Also, Taiwanese judges are not renowned for having a full grasp of logic or the law. I’m not kidding; this happened to a (very decent) guy I know.

Just get OUT of her way and take precautions to protect yourself. If you have to lose money or use your credit card, that’s less important than ending up in jail or worse.

Well, actually, it is possible to get a restraining order if someone is harassing you, esp. by phone like that. There have been several instances reported on TV where the harasser has been order to stay away and fined, but it will be a lengthy process. You’ll probably have to hire an English speaking lawyer if you don’t speak Chinese like a native speaker and lawyers in general are like, NT$5k an hour minimum. It’ll take months, maybe years for an actual decision to be made. Not really the most effective way to get her to stop or give up, IMO.

If you have a ton of money and want to prove a point, I guess you could try getting a restraining order. But it will probably cost much more time and money than just moving to another city and changing your phone number.

Oh. And she has to actually be your ex-wife.

Apparently in Taiwan, you can only get restraining orders for spouses, ex-spouses, in-laws, kids, a limited number of relatives through blood or marriage. (up to four degrees of connection - your first cousin(4 degrees - you to mom 1, mom to grandma 2, grandma to mom’s brother 3, uncle to cousin 4), yes. The son of that cousin (5 degrees), no.)

民事保護令的保護範圍:

配偶或前配偶:指的是夫妻或前夫、前妻關係。
現有或曾有事實上之夫妻關係、家長家屬或家屬間關係者:
現為或曾為直系血親或直系姻親。
現為或曾為四等親以內之旁系血親或旁系姻親。