I give brownie points to anyone who tries to do things by themselves first with limited language skills. Kudos to all. But as for myself, I am grateful for those who took the time to take us by the hand and show us where to eat, what was good/cheap and shared the laughter and tears of brusing your knees while learning to ride this bike called Taiwan living. Some are naturals, some just crash at every turn, everyone has his/her own style.
Me, I’d wish I had been less proud and ask for help more often. I did not have to be a martyr, no one would clap and go hurray because I walked 5 miles insted of spending 20nts on a bus because I was too afraid to ask/to try. I was there at the first Oriented meeting and I am glad we have this data base here at the 'mosa. Anything that makes my life and others easier is all right in my book.
I like to be close to newbies like Lilli because you need to be reminded of the wonders around you. You are making a living half a world away from your point of origin, that’s not bad. At least you’ll laugh a bit.
Have I told you the story of the newly arrived guy who was very happy because he just attended a Buddist ceremony? He went out for a walk by himself and told me he clapped at the end and everyone stared at him. Where was this place? I asked.
In a tent.
With stripes.
With flower and drink arrangements on the sides
People were dressed in robes
There was music and bells
And there was a picture of someone “famous” at the center.
…
[quote=“Icon”]Have I told you the story of the newly arrived guy who was very happy because he just attended a Buddist ceremony? He went out for a walk by himself and told me he clapped at the end and everyone stared at him. Where was this place? I asked.
In a tent.
With stripes.
With flower and drink arrangements on the sides
People were dressed in robes
There was music and bells
And there was a picture of someone “famous” at the center.[/quote]
Oh. My. Gawd!
[quote]Have I told you the story of the newly arrived guy who was very happy because he just attended a Buddist ceremony? He went out for a walk by himself and told me he clapped at the end and everyone stared at him. Where was this place? I asked.
In a tent.
With stripes.
With flower and drink arrangements on the sides
People were dressed in robes
There was music and bells
And there was a picture of someone “famous” at the center.[/quote]
I have had this pleasure for years, starting when I first met au pairs that I worked alongside and helped them get acclimated to a drastically new setting. Took them shopping, dancing, drinking, and listened to their horror stories of their host families. Then I got the off-chance and very lucky opportunity to meet an entire network of travelers who over the years have become my life long friends- my family- as I experienced their “newbieness” in NY through them. Of course, how can you not grow bonds with the people you search for housing with, drag mattresses half way around the city, and pick up on the side of the road from their blown out tire and direct them to your family mechanic? In university I lived with study abroad students who I took home with me for Thanksgiving dinner and Christmas parties.
And now I’m receiving my karma. On and off of Forumosa I have met some darling people, foreign and local, who have made every day in Taiwan worth the ups and downs of newbie life. And I’ve only been here a few weeks!
I’m incredibly fortunate and I don’t believe I would’ve met these people had I been a hermit and determined to show the world that I “can do it on my own”. Why would I want to? I’m in a new place and its not Taiwan that is going to bring my joy, but the people I’m meeting along the way who share a bit of their lives with me.
I can say its well worth the occasional bitter newb and grumpy expat
We were all newbies somewhere sometime in one way or another. Middle school, high school, university, first job, first social, first club meet, etc.
How did you feel the first time you went to a foreign city, holding a map, and a stranger came up and offered you directions? Did that make your day? How did you feel the first time an older student offered to show you to your classes? Did that put a smile on your face?
Just keep in mind you were a newbie to Taiwan once, and to Forumosa. Some day you will be a newbie in another place, maybe another online forum, and hope others will help you out along the way.
[quote=“914”]We were all newbies somewhere sometime in one way or another. Middle school, high school, university, first job, first social, first club meet, etc.
How did you feel the first time you went to a foreign city, holding a map, and a stranger came up and offered you directions? Did that make your day? How did you feel the first time an older student offered to show you to your classes? Did that put a smile on your face?
Just keep in mind you were a newbie to Taiwan once, and to Forumosa. Some day you will be a newbie in another place, maybe another online forum, and hope others will help you out along the way.[/quote]
Personally I can’t express how relieved I was when some other foreigner showed (well, explained) me how to use my first squatty potty in Japan! And the other half of that person’s group were off rolling their eyes at the noob, but that kind young woman will forever have a place in my heart!
Being poor and from one of the roughest areas of the UK, when I first arrived in Korea, I had no idea how air con worked. I’d experienced it in places like banks and department stores at home but never in a person’s house.
Imagine the look on people’s faces when I found out it wasn’t like a fan and it had to be cleaned.
[quote=“Icon”] no one would clap and go hurray because I walked 5 miles insted of spending 20nts on a bus because I was too afraid to ask/to try.
…[/quote]
Woooo…wait…20 NT? You got robbed. It’s 15NT even without the YoYo card.
But getting back to the topic: I’d help if people had asked unless it’s too mundane. After all, not every newcomers can read Chinese.
I think helping people out is indeed a good thing and we should all be encouraged to help when we can.
However, what I do not enjoy seeing are the people that rely completely on others. Or even worse, become angry or frustrated if they are not given the adequate help. To an extent everyone has to make an effort for themselves too, right?
As one who was raised in the United States, I feel that we are sometimes the worst offenders of this. We perhaps rely too much on other people when travelling abroad, whether it be using English to address everyone or simply expect really good service in general (we always expect excellent service in our own country because of the tip incentive culture). I will be the first to admit that I can sometimes be insensetive to other people’s cultures but I really do try to make an effort to be respectful and accommodating to the local people as much as possible.
[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”][quote=“914”]
How did you feel the first time you went to a foreign city, holding a map, and a stranger came up and offered you directions? Did that make your day? How did you feel the first time an older student offered to show you to your classes? Did that put a smile on your face?
[/quote]
When this happened to me my first ever day in Taipei, both of the ‘helpers’ were old Taiwanese guys trying to trick me back to their places. [/quote]
I think it’s important to at least attempt to help newbies if they are reaching out for it. It’s not all bad vibes and cyncial venom at super_lucky HQ. I don’t know, maybe it’s the way I look or maybe it was the alignment of the stars, but when I arrived, I couldn’t get a fellow foreigner to point me in the direction of a fucking 7-11. I felt as if I’d walked into a tidal wave of selfish c*#@s who automatically begrudged my intrusion on their Asian experience. I’ll never ever ever forget this one guy, who I still see around on a regular basis, this smug buxiban suck, when I asked if he could recommend a good restaurant said, “That depends if you can use chopsticks,” and then high-fived his porky companion. “Really?” I replied. “That’s worth a high-five? Making me feel small and stupid?” I see that clown now, still torturing 7-year-olds with flash cards and think, “There but for the grace of God…” At any rate, my guardian angel turned out to be (of course) a generous and friendly local who literally held my hand for two weeks until I got settled. It took several weeks before I even met a foreigner that didn’t have a chip on its shoulder, and the one on my shoulder was growing by the minute.
Nowadays, I will go out of my way to help out a newcomer if they ask for it. I really don’t want newbies to think we’re all a bunch of asspats in Taiwan. Yes, asspat. My portmanteau of asshole and expat. While some of the best advice about Taiwan I ever got was “avoid other foreigners at all costs,” I feel like my experience is enriched by meeting other people in a similar boat. If I can help them out in some small way, that’s great. As far as hand-holding goes, it’s been my experience that those who need it usually turn around and reciprocate the favor – sort of paying it forward, I guess.
[quote=“tommy525”][quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”][quote=“914”]
How did you feel the first time you went to a foreign city, holding a map, and a stranger came up and offered you directions? Did that make your day? How did you feel the first time an older student offered to show you to your classes? Did that put a smile on your face?
[/quote]
When this happened to me my first ever day in Taipei, both of the ‘helpers’ were old Taiwanese guys trying to trick me back to their places. [/quote]
Oh wait? Does that work? [/quote]
Yeah, but you have to be willing to wear no trousers, hack up phlegm and mutter incomprehensibly to all around you. Oh yeah, and then you have to wait until the bank teller has finished serving you too.
I think this is a good point. I’m always happy to help new people out (not that I’m all that “old” myself), whether it’s in person with directions or translating something, on on here answering questions. But when people have obviously failed to make even the most basic effort to help themselves, it’s hard to muster up the will to help them. A little googling will find you a whole world of information these days, and I expect people to at least do a little research before they start bugging other people with their questions. You shouldn’t expect other people to spend more time on your problem than you’re willing to spend yourself.
[quote=“tommy525”][quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”][quote=“914”]
How did you feel the first time you went to a foreign city, holding a map, and a stranger came up and offered you directions? Did that make your day? How did you feel the first time an older student offered to show you to your classes? Did that put a smile on your face?
[/quote]
When this happened to me my first ever day in Taipei, both of the ‘helpers’ were old Taiwanese guys trying to trick me back to their places. [/quote]
Oh wait? Does that work? [/quote]
Not really. I did go see a movie with the second one (my Chinese teacher had told me movie theaters in China were really, really cool, and if I ever have a chance I should go … yeah. Plus this one was around 20, and I was 17) and he tried to kiss me. At the time I’d never been kissed, and I’m assuming that this guy didn’t do much kissing because his tongue was way ahead of his mouth. I saw it and kinda went ‘…Gross… No thanks’.
You sound like my mum. ‘Why are you asking me where the remote is when you haven’t even looked for it??’ Because I looked where it was supposed to be only to find it NOT there, and I thought you might know where it is, saving me twenty minutes of searching when I could’ve just asked you.
If you didn’t look where it was supposed to be in the first place I might get a little annoyed. But if it wasn’t there I think it’s pretty natural to ask.
[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]
You sound like my mum. ‘Why are you asking me where the remote is when you haven’t even looked for it??’ Because I looked where it was supposed to be only to find it NOT there, and I thought you might know where it is, saving me twenty minutes of searching when I could’ve just asked you.
If you didn’t look where it was supposed to be in the first place I might get a little annoyed. But if it wasn’t there I think it’s pretty natural to ask.[/quote]
Well, yeah, I agree with this. So just say “hey, the remote’s not where it usually is, where is it?” Let’s me know that you’re (the general you, of course, not you) not an idiot, and saves me having to tell you to look in the usual place.
A question like “I’ve read x, y, and z about applying for an ARC, but I’m still confused/my situation is weird/whatever” is fine, but something like “do I need a visa to teach English?” makes it pretty obvious that you’ve put no effort into it.
These are basic things that people should be able to figure out for themselves. It would make me feel incompetent.
Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and helping people is a good thing, but some people rely so heavily on other people helping them, that they never figure out how to do things themselves.
