The Destruction of the Hualien Plain

Yes, phytoremediation is one thing, but getting rid of the plants that have absorbed the pollution is quite another. Obviously, they have to be destroyed and the residue disposed of “properly”.

I bought some lemongrass (seeds and plants) but it doesn’t seem to be nearly as tough and aggressive as vetiver. If you hear of anything similar, sure, please let me know.

Well, yeah … I probably could … but it’s a bit antisocial. The main problem is not the plant itself (which, experimentally, seems to be perfectly safe in every other Asian country) but diseases that might hitch a ride.

Yes, it’s a hell of a challenge, but I don’t think an insurmountable one. What irritates me is that the farmers don’t even attempt to find solutions. They just assume the gubmint will bail them out when it all goes pearshaped.

[quote]Raising the borders makes your land a pond and diversion swales tend to end up being dug deep by intense rainfall and make them difficult to plan/work properly[/quote].
Yes, I discovered exactly that problem. It works up to a point, but far too much maintenance required unless you have a living fence to hold everything in place.

Yes, that’s what I meant about farm payouts. I wouldn’t dream of setting out a field of cabbages on bare soil when I know for a fact there’s going to be a typhoon or three just prior to harvest. There are only two possibilities: either they actually profit from the perverse gov’t incentives to fail; or the average farmer simply can’t tell his ass from a hole in the ground.

Exactly. The “logic” that drives farmers to use machinery in the West simply doesn’t apply here.

Yes … weird, isn’t it!

Good luck with that :slight_smile:

And with that :slight_smile:

It’s the sheer waste that gets to me, especially since (in my experience) it isn’t possible to grow anything here without a thick layer of mulch. It’s like sending banknotes up in flames.

Even that idiot Jethro Tull - who thought you could plough and plough ad infinitum and your soil would never lose fertility - suggested that any field should be 20%+ “left to nature”. IIRC he went to far as to suggest that if you don’t, you’ll get nothing. My feeling is that, in Taiwan, you need about 30% growing non-food/dual-use crops which can (at some point) be slashed down and used for mulch/compost, and until that point act to mitigate the effects of fierce weather. I’ve finally got some sesbania sesban growing nicely, so I’m going to put plenty of that out there; turns out, it’s only happy in loose, sandy soil.

Nothing much to add to that except :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thats the biggest issue probably, getting rid of it. how is that done “properly”, in the end somewhere is getting dirty :frowning: Any suggestions or recommended reads?

Funny you mention that, i am growing it along my border now too. Just started planting it. But i think if soil erosion is the goal of it, you need a stiffer type of grass. lemon grass is very flexible and wouldnt stop much at all in a flood. And like you say, it has pretty weak roots, though i find it grows incredibly well here.

if not you, someone else will. At least when you do something it can be controlled, such as a good quarantine. AG extensions and school would probably check over a plant for free to see if it ahs any disease, and if so they would probably also incinerate it. However the amount of plant products that cross borders without proper inspection is quite ridiculous, so I would not lose sleep over it. You can also buy it from a place that will get a phytosanitary certificate which will at least somewhat screen the plant before exiting the country of origin. If you were so inclined of course.

Yes indeed. But lack of effort is a common problem worldwide. Here probably more than other places mainly due to the fact the gov actually has money and is incredibly careless in how it spends it (ie corrupt as shit).

ya, this is why the good quality agri plastic is so useful. Its still not the best environmentally speaking, but it lasts many years in direct sun adn it is incredibly practical. It does absolute wonders for soil erosion, then you also plant stuff into it. Living walls, in my opinion, are an absolute essential aspect to farming here. Nothing holds up dirt better than strong roots. Though on slopes it is also important to keep such living walls pruned down to prevent an umbrella effect with high winds.

At times, it can be very difficult to figure out just which type of farmer that is…But you can tell which ones like money as they usually get 3-5 annual crops in per year and dont need to let the land go fallow as they diversify their crops in rotation. Other idiots just plant eggplant year in and year out while smoking on said land and causing untold loss in disease.

It doesnt apply there either. AS far as fertility and yields go, tractors are bad no matter which way we look at it. Their only true benefit is reduced labor costs, which is probably the single biggest problem with many polyculture setups. But i bet someone somewhere has found out ways around that to make man hours more efficient, i sure haven’t.

[quote]It’s the sheer waste that gets to me, especially since (in my experience) it isn’t possible to grow anything here without a thick layer of mulch. It’s like sending banknotes up in flames.

Even that idiot Jethro Tull - who thought you could plough and plough ad infinitum and your soil would never lose fertility - suggested that any field should be 20%+ “left to nature”. IIRC he went to far as to suggest that if you don’t, you’ll get nothing. My feeling is that, in Taiwan, you need about 30% growing non-food/dual-use crops which can (at some point) be slashed down and used for mulch/compost, and until that point act to mitigate the effects of fierce weather. I’ve finally got some sesbania sesban growing nicely, so I’m going to put plenty of that out there; turns out, it’s only happy in loose, sandy soil.[/quote]

precisely, it is burning money. Its just how we think of it. They see it as waste, and until someone shows them through actually making lots of money, they are not likely to change their point of view no matter how much research is thrown at them. Money talks, bullshit walks. THat saying seems fitting here.

I dont think any needs to be left to nature, species just need to be chosen more wisely. Look at any crop, with the exception of greens, and anywhere from say 40-90% of the mass of the plant is not used, waste. without getting into fine details lets just assume that the 40-90% can be directly translated into fertilizers. so 40-95% of the fertilizers bought are wasted. Although fertilizers are not so efficiently taken into the plant so there is far more wasted as the plant wont actually take up everything that is thrown onto the ground.

So if all that waste material is put back, either as a mulch or through a composting system, there is huge benefit. Its not to say need to stop fertilizing altogether, but your plants are going to be far healthier which directly translates into higher yields. the 20% left natural could easily be turned into a extremely profitable compost and/or mushroom cultivating area. Various foods can be grown from agriculture waste, such as snails and fish.

With any other sector of business, cutting the fat, reducing waste costs and improving profit margins are thought of as good business. Agriculture, for whatever strange reason is almost the exact opposite. People stuck in old ways that were developed when we really didnt understand nearly as much about biology and ecology. Old ways just dont make sense anymore, and thankfully more and more people seem to be recognizing that. I really wish some of these good books could be printed in Chinese. People that speak only Mandarin are really at a disadvantage as they dont have the resources we who know languages such as English have. And we cant expect the older working class to pick up English to the level needed to understand complicated texts. I try and talk with people around my farm, but it is pretty clear i am well known as that crazy shirtless ape who has a shovel and cant figure out how to start a machine lol. I also seem to be known as the one who only knows how to grow weeds, poor wife gets it sometimes from her parents that we should “clean up the soil”, to which i reply it took them 60 years to completely kill the soil its going to take more than a few years to make it normal again :raspberry:

I think one of the best systems here is to have a 3 or 4 tree fruit system. 2 of which should be Fabaceae for some good nitrogen fixing. Tamarind grow well here, though mine are too small to fruit, so i imagine they could be profitable. but inter cropping using them and keeping them far enough apart that you can have a decent crop rotation of either smaller perennials or annuals. Aside from all the stuff we talked about before, it also greatly improves your finances as you are not only no longer fucked when a storm comes, you also have crops coming in at different times of the year. I cant say i have met many people good enough with money to get one large payout in a year and actually be smart enough with it to make it last until next harvest. This way its like getting smaller paychecks, but far more frequently that eventually add up to a far larger sum at years end.

But we also need to realize the idea of calculated chemical monoculture is easy. No thinking involved. Many times the outcome and expenses are already calculated and the farmer simply just follows the instructions just like a set of lego. Thats attractive to many people as there is little thought or effort involved and they think of it as a guaranteed paycheck, whether it is or isnt. If i was lazy, i think i would do that too. People arent hungry enough here to truly innovate and try to break new ground.

As an aside, i am digging a new pond and would love any suggestions on tilapia species/varieties that do well. I am especially interested in ones that will not eat my giant lilies that are planned for the pond!

We need to grab our rice straw hats and shovels and have ourselves a good ol forumosa hoedown.

Pingdong…thank you for your suggestions.

thought I would share this. The local government has been allowing Asia cement to strip mine mountains around the Taroko national park.

k640640.pixnet.net/blog/post/47020458

[quote=“hansioux”]thought I would share this. The local government has been allowing Asia cement to strip mine mountains around the Taroko national park.

k640640.pixnet.net/blog/post/47020458[/quote]

Thanks for the information and the link, hansioux; and thank all you guys and ladies for all the times you’ve added to my little store of knowledge about Taiwan.

[quote=“hansioux”]thought I would share this. The local government has been allowing Asia cement to strip mine mountains around the Taroko national park.

k640640.pixnet.net/blog/post/47020458[/quote]

Hell’s bleeding bells. What a mess. I wonder how much it will cost the public purse to deal with the side-effects of that.

The bottom line is, though, that they have no choice. Building companies are “good for the economy”, which means the government has to allow them to destroy whatever they want in the name of progress. This will only stop if the hoi polloi agree that it is not necessary to build lots of low-quality, badly-designed highrises that will have to be torn down in 40 years; unfortunately, most of them are still quite happy to hand over their life savings for a pisspoor concrete shoebox.

It’s pretty shocking, I don’t recall seeing this in the mountains before.

Sweet baby Jesus! WTF?!

That’s been going on for a while / a few years, thought you all knew about this. I think the side strip-mine is visible from the main road into Taroko, and if it’s not then you get a very good view as you climb up towards the Dali-Datong trail. The mountain top slice-off looks awesome, I’d no idea about that effort :bravo: :bravo:.

I know nothing about that, but from the pics it looks like it is just digging/trucking out and no sort of refinement. In such a case is there really much pollution involved? From what i can see the only likely bad scenario is increased soil erosion and landslide risks. Though im not defending them, it doesnt seem nearly as bad as any kind of polluting chemical plant near homes and schools…Land slides suck and should be prevented, and its ironic how much they say they protect against it while allowing mining adn agriculture in teh hills. They actually encourage growing crops in the hills.

Anything more than erosion with those mines?

[quote=“Pingdong”]I know nothing about that, but from the pics it looks like it is just digging/trucking out and no sort of refinement. In such a case is there really much pollution involved? From what i can see the only likely bad scenario is increased soil erosion and landslide risks. Though im not defending them, it doesnt seem nearly as bad as any kind of polluting chemical plant near homes and schools…Land slides suck and should be prevented, and its ironic how much they say they protect against it while allowing mining adn agriculture in teh hills. They actually encourage growing crops in the hills.

Anything more than erosion with those mines?[/quote]

I think their main plant is at the mouth of the river

I don’t think this is common in the high mountains, you will often see gravel mining near river beds or in hilly areas. Hope it doesn’t become more rampant. It seems nowhere is safe from development, that’s the thing that gets me.

Yeah the lack of land use planning is infuriating. This is the country’s top tourist draw for fuck’s sake.

All sorts. As hansioux pointed out, their main plant is near the mouth of a river, so:

  • The mountain isn’t going to be pure limestone; there will be truckloads of tailings which they’ll be dumping … hmm, let me see, where would be a convenient place?
  • A river full of gravel, silt, alkaline runoff, and who knows what else is not conducive to life. It will have extensive and completely unpredictable effects both on the ecosystem and local hydrology.
  • Erosion itself has similar knock-on effects; in fact erosion tends to ‘creep’, desert-like, far beyond the original extent of the damage. In 20 years time I expect that mountain to be 40-60% denuded.
  • As MM points out, it’s a top tourist draw. They’re not going to want to come and look at a mountain that looks like it’s got mange.
  • The cutting processes will generate dust and airborne particulates, which will no doubt cause breathing problems, illness, and a layer of filth settling on everything nearby.
  • Can you imagine how many truck runs are involved in removing that much mass, with the attendant pollution, road damage and inevitable accidents involved?
  • That concrete is (partly) replacing a load of badly-built highrises, which are being torn down and thrown in landfill. In countries which make excessive use of concrete, building demolition waste accounts for 30-40% of landfill volume.

Unless anyone knows differently, it’s fairly certain Asia Cement are covering precisely NONE of the costs associated with this damage; I suspect they’ve been granted land-use rights for next-to-nothing. That’s the way it works in most of the world, and I doubt Taiwan is any different.

Yes, this is, to put it mildly, mind-boggling.

The Taiwanese don’t see this land development in the same way. All the great sights of Taroko are still intact and in place, so what else is there to care about. No-one’s coming to see the mangy mountain, they’ve just got to drive past it. That’s all. Mei guan-xi.

Oh, yes, loads of trucks making that short run up from Asia Cement to the mine turn-off. When it’s busy, they have 2 guys with flags and radios at that junction, so the trucks can seamlessly integrate back onto the main road without ploughing into coach-loads of mainlanders. It makes me wonder now if those trucks were the reason why they built the completely separate cycle-paths on that stretch. Out of interest, I went to use one of those paths last week and it has collapsed mid-way, leaving a 5 foot drop onto rubble. Of course, there’s no warning at the start of the path about that. It’s all so 差不差不差不差不多.

interesting. I can see the silt mucking up waters, but the rivers in Taiwan are like this “naturally”. landslides are very normal in mountains, increasingly so with development sure. but rivers are fast and hard hitting through summer, and with no mangroves they always cloud up the sea. I wonder how much worse that pot is compared to another large river in taiwan? im guessing probably worse, but also do to its close proximity to the ocean unlike the western side where they are longer and twist around some before spilling into the still mangrove-less sea.

it seems destructive, but to me it is so more because of it being in a mountain, not really that mountain. If it wasnt near the tourist draw, would many people know or care? A river by my house sees at least 100-300 trucks out of one exit point alone ever since morakot (granted river dredging is a far better thing than mountain top mining). pollution does not seem to be on anyone’s mind anywhere here. be it dust, chemical or other.