The effectiveness or otherwise of wearing masks

There’s a pretty good summary with the OAN logo in the bottom left corner.

It’s just more lies and misinformation - a group of Trumpist doctors (or actors wearing lab coats, who knows at this point?) saying that masks don’t work. Save the 37 min of your life for something else. :slight_smile:

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Here’s some of the key points.

  • Prior to March 2020 there were no scientific journals showing masks are effective against viruses.
  • Viruses are 1/1000 the size of a hair.
  • Fauci said “When you’re in the middle of an outbreak masks might make people feel better … etc.”.
  • Media is lying.
  • Three groups of Americans 1. Those who recognize propaganda, 2. Those who have been successfully propagandized, and 3 Those who don’t care.
  • Mask mandates spread fear, socially divisive, cause mask virtual signaling … etc
  • Mask mandates remove civil liberty and are illegal
  • Masks are a national security issue when the population can be so easily persuaded to do something against their interests.
  • Get angry toward those who lied to you.
  • It’s ridiculous to think a bandanna can stop a virus.
  • Big tech taking down scientific article.
  • News organizations are deleting past articles, that don’t fit narrative. 10 year old article deleted.
  • COVID-19 should be considered the mildest pandemic in the last century.
  • Early treatments are effective but are being suppressed.
  • Hydroxychloroquine works.
  • Zinc and other vitamins are effective.
  • Does a pandemic last forever? Bodies fight viruses and bacteria. The pandemic is over, the mass deaths are finished.
  • A lot of PCR positives.
  • Tanzanian president tested a goat, paw paw those tests returned positive for COVID-19.
  • Fear is keeping the pandemic going.
  • The second wave has a lot of cases but few deaths.
  • Masks have not been used in past to control viruses.
  • Viruses are transmitted by the small invisible 0.12 micron particles. Masks only stop bigger particles.
  • Masks compared to a tennis net trying to stop golf balls.
  • Even the best medical masks don’t screen out viruses.
  • The virus is in the atmosphere, it’s not resulting from other people coughing.
  • Masks are hurting society.
  • Masks cause developmental issues for small children who need to see faces.
  • Masks teach small children to be afraid of their environment.
  • Masks are George Orewell’s 1984 boot on the face forever.

    That’s as far as I got.
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Here’s some of the key points.

  • Prior to March 2020 there were no scientific journals showing masks are effective against viruses. This is a lie. Go to PubMed, type in “mask viruses” or whatever, look at the hits, and read the studies if you want. I see around 50 articles per year just for these search terms, which is more than “no”.
  • Viruses are 1/1000 the size of a hair. Yep, they are. Great, but so what? Oh, I see where you’re going with this.
  • Fauci said “When you’re in the middle of an outbreak masks might make people feel better … etc.”. Okay, thanks for the out-of-context quote. I hear there have been a few of those lately.
  • Media is lying. Yep, don’t disagree. Especially OANN.
  • Three groups of Americans 1. Those who recognize propaganda, 2. Those who have been successfully propagandized, and 3 Those who don’t care. Yep. You’re in group 2 I guess?
  • Mask mandates spread fear, socially divisive, cause mask virtual signaling … etc There’s no reason for this to be the case, if the moron-in-chief hadn’t politicized them and made them socially divisive.
  • Mask mandates remove civil liberty and are illegal No reason for this to be an issue - the law is a human construct - but America I guess.
  • Masks are a national security issue when the population can be so easily persuaded to do something against their interests. No real comment on this. It sounds like a silly point, although I agree that it seems that a substantial portion of the U.S. population is willing to do things against their own interests. Like complain about wearing masks, or voting for you know who.
  • Get angry toward those who lied to you. Ok, fine. Do it with these “doctors”, and OANN, and the current administration.
  • It’s ridiculous to think a bandanna can stop a virus. Actual masks would be better. Will come back to later.
  • Big tech taking down scientific article. Not sure about this. I just see some guy anecdotally telling me something was deleted. Shrug.
  • News organizations are deleting past articles, that don’t fit narrative. 10 year old article deleted. Ditto.
  • COVID-19 should be considered the mildest pandemic in the last century. Okay.
  • Early treatments are effective but are being suppressed. Don’t know what this means. Who’s suppressing what?
  • Hydroxychloroquine works. Not according to the studies I’ve read of, but will let the doctors decide that - I don’t need to have an opinion here. Again, no reason for this to be a political issue where everyone has to have an uneducated opinion - it’s either demonstrably effective or not.
  • Zinc and other vitamins are effective. Ditto.
  • Does a pandemic last forever? Bodies fight viruses and bacteria. The pandemic is over, the mass deaths are finished. Nah, it’ll end eventually. It’s just natural selection, but maybe as a relatively advanced society we could/should take efforts to reduce the deaths during that process when we can.
  • A lot of PCR positives. Incomplete sentence. Don’t know what this means.
  • Tanzanian president tested a goat, paw paw those tests returned positive for COVID-19. Um, okay. So what? A cursory search seems to suggest he was demonstrating that the imported tests didn’t work properly, but is anyone really looking to Tanzania for state-of-the-art medical testing?
  • Fear is keeping the pandemic going. The pandemic is going anyway, irrespective of fear. But I agree that many people are excessively concerned about it.
  • The second wave has a lot of cases but few deaths. Okay, no comment.
  • Masks have not been used in past to control viruses. Okay, we’re getting back to the mask nonsense. Are you referring specifically to surgical masks here?
  • Viruses are transmitted by the small invisible 0.12 micron particles. Masks only stop bigger particles. This is garbage, but it’s been said a million times and you’ll continue not to believe it. First, droplets vs viruses. Second, not invisible, rather observable - microscopic/mesoscopic/nanoscopic. Third, masks protecting others not host. This has been done again and again and again.
  • Masks compared to a tennis net trying to stop golf balls. Garbage. See above.
  • Even the best medical masks don’t screen out viruses. Still garbage, still not how masks work. See above.
  • The virus is in the atmosphere, it’s not resulting from other people coughing. What? In the atmosphere? What?
  • Masks are hurting society. Again, no need for this to have become political. Just show some consideration for other people and don’t be a dick, and you wouldn’t have a problem.
  • Masks cause developmental issues for small children who need to see faces. I laughed at this. This is really clutching at straws as a reason not to wear masks.
  • Masks teach small children to be afraid of their environment. Lol. Won’t somebody please think of the children? Tell your weak conservative children to grow some balls/ovaries and stop being such snowflakes. It’s a pandemic!
  • Masks are George Orewell’s 1984 boot on the face forever. Lol.

    That’s as far as I got. Please don’t go any further. I don’t want to waste time on this again. You’re talking shit.
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exactly the same response I was going to make.

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Don’t take it so personal. Also, those aren’t my comments, they were points from the video.

I think their point was that the masks public are wearing simply don’t filter particles that small.

I have no idea if this is true or not.

Yes, I got that, and it’s not personal. But you’re the one sharing this misinformation. Nonetheless, I’m happy to direct the same comments at the video.

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It’s not the size of the virus that matters. It’s the size of the droplet that virus is suspended in that matters. Which is why surgical masks and gowns are made of natural fibers, or knitted synthetic fabrics since they are good at absorbing liquids.

Masks in the general public deflect the spray from you. That is their primary purpose, not filtering out the virus.

And that list looks like Reasons the US will never overcome the Pandemic

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It’s pretty much (>75%?) true, as far as I’m aware. The pore size of surgical masks with respect to the size of virus particles and/or droplets is only of limited relevance here, since the majority of air flow goes around a typically worn mask and inhaled/exhaled air isn’t “filtered” through the mask as such.

But again, this isn’t the point of masks - and that’s been done to death. The point is to catch a large proportion of exhaled/sneezed/coughed droplets from the wearer (which I imagine is more of an collisional/absorption thing than a filtering thing, but I’m not an expert on that). The virus particles don’t need to be filtered out for that to work.

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If you enjoyed that, you may also want to go check out the YouTube comments on the original video. Lots of head-shaking moments in there…

There are articles. But do any of them show masks prevent a pandemic?

Some of the studies were comparing N95 masks with ordinary surgical masks, and found the results to be about the same. Other studies seem to show that masks aren’t effective against viruses.

Which one of the 50 articles show that face masks can prevent a pandemic or stop the spread of an airborne virus?

The closest I found (link below) states masks may delay a pandemic, but presumably not stop it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7169241/

Are you sure about that?

Droplet and aerosol transmission occur when contagious droplets or aerosols are produced by an infected host during talking, coughing, or sneezing. Droplets are particles large enough to settle quickly, while aerosols are small enough to remain suspended in air for an indefinite period.( 10 ) Fabian et al. showed that regular exhalation mainly results in aerosol production (>99% of exhaled particles <5 μm), with most people exhaling more than 500 particles per liter of air and influenza virus RNA being detected in the exhaled breath of 33% of influenza patients.( 21 )

Droplets smaller in diameter than a few micrometers are believed to evaporate to about half their initial size. These small liquid particles are usually referred to as “droplet nuclei.”( 22 )

Many guidelines and review articles state that droplet transmission may be the main mode of influenza transmission. However, compelling scientific evidence supports the occurrence and significance of aerosol transmission( 21 , 23 ) and suggests that it plays an important role in the spread of influenza( 24 ) or may even be the dominant way of transmission.( 25 )

Certainly, the different features of droplets and aerosols may affect these types of transmission, thus influencing also the expected mask efficiency in either case. In Table I we summarize the main features for these two types of transmission.

Frankly I’m embarrassed to even have this sort of disinformation posted here.

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You can chose to ignore it, or find an echo chamber.

The most important part of discussion and debate involves refuting false information. Only then can the truth be discovered.

Yes I am. Your article also concurs with my statement. Aerosols are droplets. They are droplets with a small enough mass that they remain suspended in the air. So what point are you trying to make? Not the size of the virus,but the size of the droplet (aerosol) that matters.

An aerosol is a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets in air or another gas. Aerosols can be natural or anthropogenic. Examples of natural aerosols are fog, mist, dust, forest exudates and geyser steam. Examples of anthropogenic aerosols are particulate air pollutants and smoke

Yes. I choose to ignore what are a bunch of conspiracy theories, fake news and misinformation.

And I’m not even a mask fan myself.

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I don’t believe face masks alone can prevent a pandemic.

Hand wash can prevent a pandemic?

The article quoted from made a distinction between aerosol and droplet transmission and sizes.

Aerosol size
70% between 0.3 and < 0.5 μm, 17% between 0.5 and < 1 μm, and 13% between 1 μm and < 5 μm

Droplet size
larger than 10 μm

Face masks rarely filter particles smaller than 5 micrometers in diameter and their filtering efficiency varies from 14% to 99%. (link)

So masks are essentially useless if the person wearing the mask doesn’t have a cough or sneeze?

how many of people with a cough or sneeze would wear masks if others are not wearing.