The end of democracy thread

The Dems gerrymander too. They just had one effort struck down in NYS, for example.

Not least from them.

If all the Trumpers had won? I mean, a lot won. If they could all win, they wouldn’t need to undermine elections, would they?

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Not sure about that free press part anymore. The US certainly has more choice than just Murdoch. But most of them would all sit in a room together counting their money.

I feel like if there were anything else really good on that laptop, it would have come out by now. I can’t see everyone sitting on it for years to use in 2024. It’s always possible that something totally new is discovered, of course. But for now, no, doesn’t seem like a major factor to me.

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Right but you get why employing big data for the first time ever to gerrymander across the country in time for the census and thus redistricting is a game changer right?

I’m not talking about one instance in New York. I’m talking about a revolutionary systemic change to how gerrymandering is conducted nationwide. The first one that is able to do that effectively shuts out the other guy.

In what respect? Nothing like what I’ve noted above.

To stay in power they would. Just like Trump tried to do with alternate electors and finding votes. No risk of losing.

I don’t buy that. Anyone can be journalist. Anyone can have a platform these days. The barriers to entry have never been lower.

Sure, but it just means the Republicans were smarter in this instance. Gerrymandering is gerrymandering. Some is more effective and some is less. It’s not like anyone ever set out to gerrymander and said "let’s make sure it’s not TOO effective, that would be wrong :innocent: "

C’mon, I’ve said it a hundred times lately probably :slight_smile:

Yeah, I don’t think so. We’d be just having another election next time. We’ve been over this as well. A lot of Trumpers won this time, Reps control the house, election is over, end of democracy concerns have passed totally from mention. It’s an electoral device.

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Sure. Anyone can do that. While battling the established media.

That’s why we’ve ended up with so many shock jocks like Alex Jones and that Joe Rogan guy. And even they didn’t really start by setting up their own website and self publishing.

The other issue is most politicians and public interest people will really only talk to established or popular media.

Joe Rogan is a shock jock? Don’t think I’ve ever heard him saying anything shocking.

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Again not an instance. Nationwide at a key point in time to effectively shut out the other party on a national scale. I don’t agree with it in any case, but this made it clear we need the supreme court to step in.

Saying that democracy is under threat to motivate voters to get to the polls? That sounds like more both sides same same false equivalence BS. Or the Dems politicized the FBI? I find that also to be BS since the Mueller investigation was about Russian interference not Trump. Trump’s own fault for getting involved with the wrong people.

That hasn’t passed totally from mention. This is not CRT or Antifa :wink:. Majority is too slim for them to do anything useful thankfully.

Using state electors to overthrow voters’ wishes is not just a device.

Yeah that’s exaggerated, at the very least to put him in the same category as Alex Jones.

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This just sounds like trying to wave off criticism of your preferred side to me. I’ve been over threats to democracy from the Dems at length. It’s far more insidious than this up-front stop the steal nonsense, IMO

I’ve stopped hearing it in the media! It was a relentless drumbeat.

As we discussed previously, we’ll see if that happens. I strongly disbelieve that it will.

These days TikTokers and YouTubers have more influence than any of them.

Do you actually believe that? The Steele dossiers primary (which they knew was Clinton crap) source was a Russian (suspected spy) who they then put on their won payroll.

Oh yeah, they are really tackling Russian interference by putting a Russian spy who feeds them disinformation on their payroll.

That sort of baloney might have worked as a talking point 6 years ago when we didn’t know any better, but the whole debacle has been out in the open for a while now.

Of course they were targeting Trump, everyone knew that. Also covering up their malfeasance by claiming information couldn’t be released because of an ongoing investigation.

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The inspector general report concluded that the Steele Dossier was not the impetus for the Russia investigation. Obsessing over that one dossier when ignoring the myriad of other links is disingenuous.

Did Russia try to influence the election? Yes they did. Was Trump winning over Hillary in their interest? Yes it was. Did the Trump campaign want their help? Yes they did.

Bengazi!!!

Some are looking forward to that again. God only knows why.

The IG went with the same stuff they put in the Joint Assessment report, which included additional details like the Democrat hack. Which the only people to ever check were Crowdstrike, payed for by the Democrats and Clinton who just so happened to be peddling a Russian interference bunch of crap.

They interviewed the guy from Crowdstrike and he admitted he had no proof of a Russian hack and you probably know all this it looked more like a local download.

The other stuff when boiled down to what we actually knew, was a bot farm and even they didn’t exclusively try to promote Trump they were just trying to sow discord, as they do and many other countries do. Likely had minimal to zero effect.

Sorry, your talking points are outdated.

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Read my questions and tell me if any of those are incorrect.

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Barely, not in a significant way and probably not behind the hack and as for the dossier they knew was crap and claimed that wasn’t the reason for opening an investigation, they clearly lied because it was.

Maybe, Hillary looked like she was going to escalate things in Ukraine. I had heard at the time Putin didn’t trust Americans, any of them including Trump.

He said something about asking Russia to release Clintons emails, I think that was a joke because by then the email server was secured as well as the emails, if he knew Clinton was creating a Russian collusion bullshit story he might have kept his mouth shut.

There were a couple of others like the Russian lawyer who happened to be working with Fusion GPS. Should Don Jr. have had the meeting for dirt on Clintons? Probably a bad idea, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out she went at Fusion GPS’s behest. They were after all being paid to concoct a Russian Trump collusion story.

This has all been discussed elsewhere.

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Well said, and all done in the shadows and muck and promoted and downplayed with the willing participation of the corporate media. All far more insidious and damaging than people complaining about election fairness and doubting results in the complete light of day.

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