The Great Amnesty

I think @BiggusDickus was talking about the “don’t go outside or people will die” and “if you hug granny she’ll die” advertising, and similar nonsense. This was perhaps unique to the UK because we had the world’s best team of propaganda experts pushing all the right buttons. They were subsequently hired out to other countries (their “Mindspace” brainwashing manual was the basis for the COVID response across much of the West, which is why they appeared to be acting in concert), and of course Comrade Susan Mitchie now has a cushy job at the WHO’s fledgling nudge unit, thanks to her sterling efforts messing with the minds of the British public.

The point of the thread is not the existence of vaccines or whether they work, but the disgusting behaviour associated with the collapse of social cohesion, which in turn was a consequence of government messaging based on lies or half-truths. The development and use of vaccines would have been unproblematic if medical ethics had not (as BD pointed out above) been thrown out the window and replaced with coercion, threats, gaslighting, and insults. Much of it was unlawful (and has been declared so in a few countries by the courts) and nearly all of it was immoral (particularly with reference to the Nuremberg Code). And this should lead to a public apology.

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Can confirm from personal experience. Quite the sight. With semi-automatic weapons, mind you.

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That’s been debunked. By Pfizer themselves. Vaccines don’t stop transmission. They never did. Despite their lies to the contrary. There are other threads with those specific details.

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So they’ve been doing it recently? Any idea if it’s still happening as of today? France went supercalifacistidocious, so I’m curious to know if that speech from the general represents a turning-point, or just an outlier making an outlier comment.

In reluctant support of @mad_masala vaccines probably reduce transmission a bit. But nowhere anywhere close to significantly reducing the spread of a virus like the Omicron strain.

This comment isn’t true at all.

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Why reluctant?

Because the reduction in transmission from vaccines is very small and temporary. If one believes that flattening the curve works, then I kind of buy into your thinking. The vulnerable are still going to contract a Covid strain at some point, though.

I think you are right, but vaccines aren’t going to stop or even significantly reduce transmission of strains such as Omicron.

Anyway, this discussion probably should be in a different thread because it has little to do with the OP

I always said that thee virus came to stay and that we all will get it, eventually. But it was overall a good idea to slow down the transmission and well, some people have definitely been luckier thanks to the special measures. I know people who haven’t gotten it yet, not knowingly, and some of them are old and/or vulnerable. I don’t know how much vaccines and masks have helped, but I’d suspect that it’s quite a bit.

I suspect the same. I had two shots, and got it. A friend got it soon after the third shot, same symptoms.

I think it is related to the OP; we didn’t know what to expect. I mostly agree with what one part off the article (we didn’t know, some were right and some were wrong, and some of the times we were right it was out of coincidence), and I agree with other points expressed here: I did see a mass censorship directed and executed from top down, from governments to regular people supporting whatever the governments were saying that day, and harassing and insulting people who dared to question or point out anything.

We knew very early on that Covid was mainly targeting the elderly and/or (generally and) immunocompromised.

Yeah, but no. “We” were right - and I’m speaking also here of highly-qualified experts like Mike Yeadon, Robert Malone, and Norman Fenton - because the data was available and we took the time to look at it. I have some background in science and statistics and it was abundantly obvious in mid-2020 what COVID was and how it might be easily dealt with. Some of the general public were right because they looked around them and saw absolutely no evidence of the death and mayhem that the government was claiming was out there. The front-line medics already knew pretty much all there was to know about COVID within a matter of weeks, and if they’d been left alone to do their jobs, they would have handled it easily. Most of what has emerged in the months/years following the early outbreak simply firms up those initial impressions, and precious little new or contradictory data has come to light.

The idea that “we didn’t know” is partly retconning, and partly a declaration of wilful ignorance on the part of those who simply didn’t want to know, couldn’t be bothered, or saw $$$ signs flashing.

Fair enough. But if we can at least agree on that: where do we go from here? Even if they “didn’t know”, isn’t this bit alone reason enough for a sincere apology?

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Not sure. My experience was at the peak.

Yes it is true. Did you read the article, at all? Apparently not.

Janine Small’s testimony to EU Parliament is that, actually, the Covid vaccines were never supposed to stop the spread of the virus.

Asked by Dutch MEP Rob Roos whether the company had tested its vaccine on “stopping the transmission of the virus” before it rolled out globally, Ms Small said “no” because “we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market”.

And YET, they’re all on tape saying it did stop transmission:

US President Joe Biden, for example, said in July 2021 that “you’re not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations”.

White House chief medical adviser Dr Anthony Fauci said in May 2021 that vaccinated people become “dead ends” for the virus.

CDC director Rochelle Walensky said in March 2021 that “vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick”.

Here’s the tweet from Pfizer directly:
https://twitter.com/pfizer/status/1349421959222853633?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1349421959222853633|twgr^889582a697865bfec6f82639091de516cd1f7ab6|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Ftechnology%2Fscience%2Fhuman-body%2Fyes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission%2Fnews-story%2Fa176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18

And here’s their own “fact check” by Janine Small, Pfizer’s president of international developed markets, when testifying before the European Union Parliament:

Pfizer did not know whether Covid vaccine stopped transmission before rollout, executive admits

Here’s your original response, in context:

Vaccines don’t stop transmission. They lied about that. Many people did. If you want to make such claims, please support it and counter all the ones that debunk your own. Otherwise, it’s simply disinformation.

Put simply, where’s the evidence that vacination reduces someone’s chances of catching Covid?

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There was also the revised definition of “herd immunity”, which IIRC came from the WHO and explicitly described the phenomenon in terms of vaccination coverage. Since COVID vaccines do essentially nothing to stop transmission, that couldn’t possibly have worked.

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The biggest crime in this whole sordid affair was the suppression of cheap, safe and effective treatments in favor of expensive, unsafe and ineffective experimental vaccines and incredibly destructive lockdowns. The masks are just the f-you icing on the cake.

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The question from MEP was “Was the Pfizer Covid vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market?”

Even the headline from the article you linked is different from what you are saying.

Vaccines don’t stop transmission ≠ Pfizer did not know whether Covid vaccine stopped transmission before rollout

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If some people want “amnesty,” then part of that is surely some acknowledgement they were wrong and/or lied. Not seeing much of that at this point. Continually repeating the same tired falsities doesn’t help.

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What are you on about?

Here’s the original claim:

That incorrect belief, is likely due to the propaganda by Pfizer (for which I cited), and then an admission by Pfizer (also cited) whereby they admit they aren’t even designed for that.

Again, if a poster wants to make claims that vaccines reduce the chances of gettting Covid, then where’s the evidence? Pfizer didn’t even test for that and no evidence was provided that it does or did.

Pfizer’s own clinical trials at least suggest that they don’t stop transmission, and it subsequently became apparent out in the real world that they do not. It’s true that the question was asking something slightly different, but that’s beside the point. The vaccines don’t stop transmission, and you’re one of a rapidly-dwindling minority still claiming that it does.

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Good. I see you edited your post for the better.