So, the American-born cleric turned Al-qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaqi has been killed by a US drone strike in Yemen. While this is great news for the war on terror, and certainly almost everyone is glad that Awlaqi is dead. His death has raised some unsettling legal questions.
Questions like, you know, if it’s okay for the president to order the summary execution of a US citizen without a shred of due process. Some people apparently don’t like that. And I’ve heard them point to something called the US constitution-in particular the 5th and 6th amendments-which says you have the right to due process or something funny like that. I mean sure, Obama was the judge, jury, and executioner here, but come on, Awlaqi was a bad guy, and besides, the CIA has never misidentified or imprisoned the wrong person before(oh wait, they totally have.)
[quote]Can the killing without trial of suspected terrorists be justified?
This is not a scientific poll
Yes 70% 972 No 30% 412 Total votes: 1384
This is not a scientific poll[/quote]
Who gives a rats ass about silly things like a constitution and human rights with an election a little over a year away. Not a scientific poll but I’d bet my left pinky finger that if a poll of the general population of America was taken the yes vote would be even higher.
[quote=“bohica”] I mean sure, Obama was the judge, jury, and executioner here, but come on, Awlaqi was a bad guy, and besides, the CIA has never misidentified or imprisoned the wrong person before(oh wait, they totally have.)
This is liberalism’s great blind spot, and something that is constantly used against such countries as America. People like al-Awlaqi couldn’t give a rat’s arse about liberalism and its individual rights. In fact, they despise such things. Yet they and their supporters will use them as a weapon against the West when convenient. Unfortunately, some within the West get fooled by that also.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
I think it’s liberalism’s great strength that government actions are constantly challenged, and great acts of violence must be more than reasonably justified and consistent with wider values of fairness.
As it stands, I don’t think targeting al-Awlaqi was criminal, but I have no problem with people asking if it was. Only a fool grants his government the right to engage in war and death without asking tough questions.
You mean people like Ron Paul or the ACLU? There are more than a few people in the US that don’t agree with these actions.
Frankly, once the US goes down this road, I can’t help but think someday, someone is going to be arbitrarily labeled a terrorist and gets taken out. Everything about these targeted killings- who’s on the list, or the evidence against them- are all secret. This at least opens the door to that possibility.
bohica: This is what I’m talking about though. If we were talking about two conventional armies lining up against each other on a battlefield, then of course this cloak and dagger stuff would be unnecessary. However, if the government put everything on the internet where anyone could access it, then obviously they wouldn’t be able to go after any terrorists. Doesn’t this seem pretty obvious? Yes, it’s also obviously open to abuse.
Also, I was also talking in the broader sense about liberalism. We have an absurd situation now where plenty of people in the West cry cultural imperialism when anyone dares to suggest that sharia law (or any other arse backwards world view) is a bad thing, that it shouldn’t be allowed, and that there should be one set of laws for everyone (i.e. the current set of national laws developed of that particular Western nation). The huge blind spot of liberalism is that if you let these guys do it their way, then they wouldn’t allow liberalism to exist.
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy land where if everyone just sticks their heads in the sand, the bad guys will not only go away, but will become just like Americans, because really, what the rest of the world desperately wants to be is just like Americans. We all just want to become Americans. Christ, the average Canadian, Brit or Aussie doesn’t want to become American. Why the fuck would anyone think some dude living in the desert practising a 7th century religion would?
That’s Article 1 Sec. 8 and it grants to Congressthe power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. I don’t think it empowers the Executive to carry out assassinations.
That’s Article 1 Sec. 8 and it grants to Congressthe power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. I don’t think it empowers the Executive to carry out assassinations.[/quote]
But it would be terrible if he was just thrown into GITMO.
Nobody worried about the sort of concerns expressed below?
What’s most striking about this is not that the U.S. Government has seized and exercised exactly the power the Fifth Amendment was designed to bar (“No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law”), and did so in a way that almost certainly violates core First Amendment protections (questions that will now never be decided in a court of law). What’s most amazing is that its citizens will not merely refrain from objecting, but will stand and cheer the U.S. Government’s new power to assassinate their fellow citizens, far from any battlefield, literally without a shred of due process from the U.S. Government. Many will celebrate the strong, decisive, Tough President’s ability to eradicate the life of Anwar al-Awlaki — including many who just so righteously condemned those Republican audience members as so terribly barbaric and crass for cheering Governor Perry’s execution of scores of serial murderers and rapists: criminals who were at least given a trial and appeals and the other trappings of due process before being killed.
That’s Article 1 Sec. 8 and it grants to Congressthe power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. I don’t think it empowers the Executive to carry out assassinations.[/quote]
We’re already at war against al-Qaeda, and the president is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces.
Oh, and by the way, your hero Bush did the same thing against top al-Qaeda terrorists.
[quote=“Dial”]Nobody worried about the sort of concerns expressed below?
[i]What’s most striking about this is not that the U.S. Government has seized and exercised exactly the power the Fifth Amendment was designed to bar (“No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law”),[/quote]
I had no idea that Anwar al-Awlaqi was within the boundaries of the United States…
