The KMT's mainland visit

This visit has been getting plenty of space in the papers here in HK. It seems to me that the mainlanders are trying to use a similar strategy to the one they used in the 90s against the colonial government in HK: “lighting the second stove.” Now they are inviting Lian Zhan to Beijing.

[quote]KMT leader is invited to Beijing in latest overture
Lien Chan may visit on May 29 - the day Chiang Kai-shek left for Taiwan in 1949

JOSEPHINE MA in Beijing

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CPPCC chairman Jia Qinglin (right) meets Chiang Pin-kung, vice-chairman of the KMT.

Beijing yesterday extended an official invitation to Kuomintang chairman Lien Chan to visit the mainland, in its latest friendly overture to Taiwan’s largest opposition party.
The invitation, conveyed by Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference chairman Jia Qinglin , came after Mr Lien expressed a desire to visit the mainland later in the year.

If it goes ahead, the visit will be the highest level of contact between the KMT and the Chinese Communist Party since the KMT fled the mainland after it was defeated in the civil war in 1949.

The invitation was given at a meeting between Mr Jia and the visiting KMT vice-chairman, Chiang Pin-kung. Xinhua quoted Mr Jia as saying that Mr Lien could visit the mainland “at a time he thinks appropriate”.

Beijing has rolled out the red carpet for Mr Chiang and his 34-strong KMT delegation during their five-day visit, which included stops in Guangzhou and Nanjing .

Apart from Mr Jia, who ranks fourth in the Politburo Standing Committee, Mr Chiang met State Councillor Tang Jiaxuan and Chen Yunlin , director of the Communist Party’s Central Office for Taiwan Affairs. Members of the delegation was also greeted by crowds of mainlanders during their visits to memorial sites.

In extending the invitation, Mr Jia said: “KMT chairman Lien Chan has expressed his willingness to visit the mainland. We welcome and invite chairman Lien Chan to visit the mainland at a time he thinks appropriate.”

Mr Jia told the delegation he believed a visit by Mr Lien would bring about breakthrough in the development of cross-strait relations, KMT spokesman Chang Yung-kung said after the meeting.

Mr Jia also invited chairmen of other political parties that “embrace the 1992 Consensus” - or the principle of one China - to visit the mainland, he said.

While officials from both sides claimed no date was set for the visit, Taiwan media have speculated that Mr Lien would choose May 29 because of its symbolic meaning - the date when former KMT chairman Chiang Kai-shek left the mainland for Taiwan 56 years ago.

A source close to Mr Lien said yesterday that both sides were already working on technical details of Mr Lien’s visit, such as the officials he would meet.

Declining to disclose the date, the spokesman said Mr Lien would visit the mainland before he stepped down as KMT chairman. The vote for the new chairman will be held in May.

At a separate meeting yesterday, Mr Tang also gave a goodwill gesture to the KMT delegation, assuring it that the mainland was willing to give more room for Taiwan to participate in the “technical activities” of the World Health Organisation (WHO).

However, Mr Chang said Mr Tang did not define “technical activities” or whether it would amount to participation in the WHO general assembly.

“The Ministry of Health [on the mainland] is now communicating with the WHO to make reasonable arrangements for medical and health-care personnel from Taiwan to take part in WHO technical activities,” Mr Chang quoted Mr Tang as saying.

“We can read the message that the mainland had a positive response [to Taiwan’s request] and obviously hoped to take the initiative to give more room for Taiwan. Of course, we hope there will be as much room as possible.”

The US had been pushing for the mainland to make some goodwill gestures, including allowing WHO membership for Taiwan, to defuse the tension across the strait following the promulgation of the Anti-Secession Law.

The KMT delegation will leave for Taiwan via Hong Kong today.

[/quote]
http://www.scmp.com/topnews/ZZZR1KUOY6E.html

As I read about this visit, two questions come to mind:

  1. Is this visit and whatever talks that lead to the ten points agreed upon by the KMT and CCP a violation of ROC laws governing cross-strait exchanges? At least one paper in HK (信報) has stated that this is the case.
  2. If this is a violation of ROC law, will CSB have the balls to order that these guys be arrested as soon as they land at CKS?

If it is a violation of ROC laws, then they should be arrested, and I would hope that Greaseball does his job and enforces the constitution. With that said, I do think any kind of cross-strait talking is good … as long as there is talking of some kind going on, there won’t be any fighting. As to the KMT’s motives, who knows …

And from yesterdays TT fishwrap:

[quote]KMT has secret deal with Beijing: DPP
ALLEGATIONS: The head of the DPP’s legislative caucus said he had evidence that the KMT had made a deal with China’s Communist Party

By Ko Shu-ling, STAFF REPORTER, Thursday, Mar 31, 2005,Page 3

Democratic Progressive Party legislative caucus Secretary-General Chen Chin-jun points to a chart at a press conference yesterday. Chen said that if the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) signed any peace agreement with the Chinese Communist Party without the consent of the government, it would be considered in violation of Article 113 of the Criminal Code.

The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) and the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) signed a secret accord before last year’s presidential election, paving the way for senior KMT officials to visit China, the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) legislative caucus alleged yesterday.

KMT Vice Chairman Chiang Pin-kun’s (江丙坤) visit to China and the planned trip of KMT Chairman Lien Chan (連戰) were the result of the accord, the DPP said.

The DPP caucus also called on Chiang, who is due back tomorrow, not to sign any agreement with the Chinese government, saying that he could face life imprisonment were he to do so.

DPP caucus Secretary-General Chen Chin-jun (陳景峻) said he has obtained intelligence indicating that the KMT inked a secret agreement with high-ranking Chinese officials in Bangkok in the run-up to last year’s presidential election. He did not elaborate.

The parties agreed to arrange meetings for high-ranking KMT officials, including Lien. They also agreed to form a unification committee, and push for direct links and the signing of a peace accord.(excert)
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003248472[/quote]

Arrest them at CKS? I’d have their passports cancelled right now and strand them over there in their beloved motherland, dispicable lowlife traitors. :raspberry:

freeze their bank accounts first. :slight_smile:

[quote=“jdsmith”]
freeze their bank accounts first. :slight_smile:[/quote]A little tricky when most of those accounts are in the USA…

[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“jdsmith”]
freeze their bank accounts first. :slight_smile:[/quote]A little tricky when most of those accounts are in the USA…[/quote]

Im sure they a “little” socked away in taiwan…ok then, freeze their entire familys’ assets until “the truth be known.” lol

[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“jdsmith”]
freeze their bank accounts first. :slight_smile:[/quote]A little tricky when most of those accounts are in the USA…[/quote]
Actually US banking reg’s would easily enable freezing of this type of activity if the Taiwan MOFA or Dept of Justice or whoever would request this.
Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong, and a few other countries are much more conducive to transfer of funds.
But whatever the country, rascals at this level usually have their escape plans long in place.

Ahhh. Typical Taipei Times crap.

Article 113 of the Criminal Code:

「應經政府允許之事項,未受允許,私與外國政府或其派遣之人為約定者,處無期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑。」

“Those who make private agreement with a foreign country’s government or designees thereof, without approval of the government, on matters needing approval by the government, are to be punished by a sentence of life or seven years in prison.”

They are not violating anything because mainland China is not considered a foreign country by the ROC constitution.

The Constitution can’t consider anything because it isn’t a person capable of thought. But the courts can, and so far they have ducked this issue in a most shameful fashion.

[begin to ride hobby horse]
One of the most significant changes in Taiwanese politics over the past 15 years is how much power the legislative branch has acquired. Unfortunately, this has not been matched by a corresponding increase in judicial power–mainly, I think, because the judicial branch has been too timid and academic to increase its powers. I suspect this has much to do with the fact that Taiwanese judges are mainly academics, not lawyers, so they tend to be men and women of thought rather than action[climbing off hobby horse].

I actually think there is no problem with KMT’s visit. Let them sign deals with China. Taiwan stands to benefit greatly from closer relations with China. I think the Taiwanese people are far beyond the point that they will surrender there hard-won political freedoms just so Taiwanese tycoons can recoup their poor investments. Go ahead and invest in China, but no government bailouts if it goes badly.

Excellent post, Feiren. And I also agree that the judicial branch has not asserted its power and it should. However, and I agree with the DPP on this one, there needs to be constitutional reform that clearly lays out a separation of powers (similar to that in the U.S.), and determines whether Taiwan is a parliamentary or presidential system. I’m also disappointed to hear that the PFP is now changing its mind on supporting the constitutional amendment on legislative reform (single-member district, two-vote system, halving the number of legislators). I think that is a very necessary step to weed out some of the crap legislators in the Legislative Yuan and (hopefully) end some of the unnecessary gridlock and shenanigans.

[quote=“zeugmite”]“Those who make private agreement with a foreign country’s government or designees thereof, without approval of the government, on matters needing approval by the government, are to be punished by a sentence of life or seven years in prison.”

They are not violating anything because mainland China is not considered a foreign country by the ROC constitution.[/quote]

There are also laws regarding relations with the mainland that forbid anyone from negotiating or signing any deals with the Beijing government without the ROC government’s approval. I think today’s TT mentions the specific law(s).

I think a case could be made for this being technically illegal, but I think that good things could come out of this … hopefully. So, I’d like to see the DPP work with what the KMT did over there, try and implement some of it, and not try to make a case out of it over politics.

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
I think a case could be made for this being technically illegal, but I think that good things could come out of this … hopefully. So, I’d like to see the DPP work with what the KMT did over there, try and implement some of it, and not try to make a case out of it over politics.[/quote]
I doubt that the KMT will allow the DPP to use this in a constructive way and I doubt that anything good will come from this. It seems clear to me that Beijing is trying to undermine the authority of the ROC’s elected government because they know that that government will not deal with the mainland on the mainland’s terms. Instead of dealing with the ROC government, they hope to divide and rule. That’s not very difficult when the KMT is so willing to run over to their side. Regardless of whether the government is blue or green, negotiations with other governments should only be carried out by appointed representatives of the ROC government. The folks who sent this Jiang guy over were not chosen by a majority of ROC citizens to form a government or hold negotiations with anybody. They are a political party, not the government. They have no mandate to negotiate on their own with the mainland. Legal or not, I don’t think it serves the interests of ROC citizens when their own government is bipassed like this.

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”][quote=“zeugmite”]“Those who make private agreement with a foreign country’s government or designees thereof, without approval of the government, on matters needing approval by the government, are to be punished by a sentence of life or seven years in prison.”

They are not violating anything because mainland China is not considered a foreign country by the ROC constitution.[/quote]

There are also laws regarding relations with the mainland that forbid anyone from negotiating or signing any deals with the Beijing government without the ROC government’s approval. I think today’s TT mentions the specific law(s).
[/quote]

Why do you trust anything that TT writes?

OK, so after ripping apart yesterday’s TT crap, let’s see what they’ve got today: Today’s TT times says

OK, why not. Let’s look at the Act and its Article 5! Some translations.

Article 5 only restricts the actions that can be taken by bodies already established by the government for straits relations like the MAC or some such! Also, TT further bullshits:

[quote]
The act also stipulates that violators can be sentenced to a maximum of five years in prison or a minimum fine of NT$200,000 and a maximum of NT$2 million.[/quote]

That is bullshyyyyyeet because there is nowhere in the whole Act that mentions penalties for violating Article 5 (since it only applies to government agencies and government disguised NGOs, so they might discipline themselves, but wouldn’t possibly fine a subsidiary agency).

There is also no mention of 新臺幣二百萬元 (NT $2 million) as a fine anywhere in the whole Act.

Why does anybody read TT again? Go back to wrapping fish with it, please.

Actually a precedent has been set for this mode of operation during the negotiations for New Year charter flights, as well as China’s offer to lift tariffs on some Taiwanese fruits. Pan-blue delegations took the initiative with China (or shall we say they staged the show in cahoots with China) in both cases.

After giving ground over the charter flights, the DPP government is now under pressure to give even more. I think public opinion results might tell us how this will end up. If a majority or a large chunk of Taiwanese don’t think the KMT’s behavior is a sell-out, then it’ll be hard for the ruling party to make a strong response without hurting itself at the polls. Perhaps the DPP needs to launch another propaganda drive (or shall we say education).

In the end, it all comes down to how much the Taiwanese are ready to sacrifice for their freedom from Beijing. You can’t have it both ways, as the case of Chi-mei boss Hsu Wen-lung has clearly shown us.

This is obviously a blank area these days since the EY established MAC, which should be going to the mainland to do all this, has turned into an empty shell hosting a bunch of rabid TIers. Instead, the LY led by the KMT, which needs to approve such laws anyway, is just going to talk as civilians and civilian organizations. Whether anything they agree on will be made into law is up to the LY as well as the MAC.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about the KMT going to the mainland. I’m not surprised that those rabid TIers would cry foul though. They always cry foul when they can see they lose, as they do with the voting public on this issue.

I think there is a problem, and that is related to Taiwan’s hard-won political freedoms. Since Taiwan is a representative democracy, more than 50 percent of the Taiwanese people have elected a president and entrusted him with the responsibility of appointing a government that thus has been authorized (indirectly as in every representative democracy where you don’t elect every single cabinet member) by the people to represent the people. They have also elected a legislature to represent them to counterbalance the president and his government. Although the KMT delegation includes a few legislators, I have read nothing that suggests that it is appointed by the president, the government or the legislature. If this is the case, it is not authorized by anyone but the KMT central leadership to negotiate matters that should be handled by the public representatives entrusted with that responsibility in the latest election, regardless of whether you see the counterpart as another country, a rival government, or an enemy with which you are still in a state of civil war.

In short, the KMT and its delegation are bypassing the whole democratic process, thereby showing a blatant disregard for the democracy they claim to protect better than the DPP or the PFP or anyone else.

I think that is a serious problem in a democracy. Think what someone with that attitude would be capable of doing if they were given control of all government resources.

If anyone missed this gem of an article, it is well worth reading. “Last rites of the KMT?”

[quote=“Her Husband”]Since Taiwan is a representative democracy, more than 50 percent of the Taiwanese people have elected a president[/quote]Bingo. Lien Chan still doesn’t seem to be able to get it through his thick skull that he wasn’t elected president. :loco: Or even worse, he rejects the popular will of the people and pursues his own agenda regardless :raspberry:
He should be tried for treason.

[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“Her Husband”]Since Taiwan is a representative democracy, more than 50 percent of the Taiwanese people have elected a president[/quote]Bingo. Lien Chan still doesn’t seem to be able to get it through his thick skull that he wasn’t elected president. :loco: Or even worse, he rejects the popular will of the people and pursues his own agenda regardless :raspberry:
He should be tried for treason.[/quote]
Sadly, you and I both know that things may not work out like that.