The limits to fidelity

Life Dating & Relationships
1

What are the limits to fidelity?

Firstly, this is not a “I’ve got this friend who…” question though the more I protest that, the less anyone will believe it. I’m not disinterested though, since I’m human, male and have been married for 18 months. Given an imagination, not to mention all the tales or cliches one hears, I’m capable of foreseeing many possible futures, about which I’m curious. For the most part, I’m just interested in peoples’ views on how to resolve the complicated mix of love, security, animal lust/physical needs and differing tastes.

So where does a duty to fidelity end? If one or both parties lose interest, it may be down to relationship problems that are either resolvable or irresolvable, or it may be down to mundanity. In the latter case, it may be solved by a bit of spicing it up or it may just be the way things are after many years.

And what of tastes? Are there activities/fantasies (let your imagination run riot) that one party might wish to experience at some point in their life which the other party has no interest in, that could justify seeking them out elsewhere? Would there be a moral distinction if you paid for it? At a very basic level, what if either party wasn’t into oral sex - thankfully not the case here though I have heard such people exist. Would that mean a life without head?

What would a loving, caring husband several years in, facing the prospect of a minimal or non existent sex life do? I imagine every individual’s answer would be different - but I don’t imagine it’s a cut and dry moral issue. How many people could say - “I love you, want to spend my life with you but don’t want to have sex with you and understand if get it elsewhere,”?

On one level, marriage is a promise, agreement, contract - infidelity is clearly breaking that promise (we may assume that breaking promises is usually wrong).
On another, no loving spouse would wish to harm their partner and a rational actor would not wish to endanger an otherwise healthy relationship for the sake of a roll in the hay.
Is taking part in sex as much a part of the contract as not being unfaithful?

I guess, when it comes around, family trumps most of the other self-interested issues, if the relationship is fundamentally healthy.

2

Is it OK to cheat because your marriage is a struggle and you (you in general) are sexually frustrated? No, no, it’s not. A lie is a lie, and some lies hurt more than others.

There are no limits to fidelity. You are to keep your pecker in your pants unless you are advised otherwise. :bow:

On the subject of fidelity… Where does masturbation stand? :blush:

3

Its a crapshoot and some people are lucky to meet the right person that they can work with and perve on without needing a third party. A third party almost always spells the end of the relationship between the original two. It will NEVER be the same.

p.s. maybe in a brave new world marriage will last five years before they automatically expire unless renewed and children will be raised by surrogates in cheap labor countries? Or just artificially bred using “the best” genes and raised from birth to 20 years old say in Child farms?

This way no kids can be hurt when you end a relationship cuz you wont have kids. And if you are in a bad marriage, its over in five ! No divorce fees or angry discourse.

4

Hmmmm…sex question?? Let granny Divs give it a go.

[quote=“RobinTaiwan”]
On the subject of fidelity… Where does masturbation stand? :blush:[/quote]
On the ‘I am loyal to you’ stand. If you can’t pleasure yourself, how do you expect to tell another person what you like. Plus masturbating keeps you in errr ummm practice, if things aren’t going that well with another person. Especially true for the ladies.

It doesn’t.

No justification whatsoever and yet a loving spouse will either try the said fantasy or give you the blessings to go seek it elsewhere. I know this about porn, many women wouldn’t care a damn about it but give their blessings to their spouses to watch what they like or read or whatever and don’t hold it against them.

No. Its still not acceptable.

:laughing: :laughing: Still have to meet a man who gets no sex. Usually its the woman. Drinking, work pressures, a beer belly, addiction to the net and porn, no exercise, economic instability, travel, usually leave the woman with a dissatisfied libido. How many married men here can honestly say that they don’t get as much sex as they want??? Ask the married women and well you will see all hands raised in the air :laughing: They want more, better and well, more! Again, this is from talking to the women around me, not from a poll or anything.

Only the ones who have a different sexual orientation or who are looking for a quick divorce. Sick (as in with a disease) are ofcourse an exception.

If you are not getting the requisite amount of rolling in the hay then the relationship is not healthy. Sure your expectations won’t meet up a 100% but if the gap between reality and expectations is really wide, then there is a big problem.

IMVHO, sexual problems arise in relationships that are fundamentally unhealthy. Money issues, insecurities, attitude problems, being over worked or over stressed, hating the in-laws, all have a way of slithering between the sheets. Sex is a fundamental part of the relationship, because it is not just about copulating, it begins when you neck in the kitchen, hold hands in the car, dance hip to hip, wink at each other across a full room, mouth ‘love yous’ on the MRT, caress each other, hold each other, be vulnerable, let go trustingly…and only then does it culminate in the sack. When couples are angry, spiteful, bored and basically not loving each other, sex is the first thing that says adios, what is then left is an unhealthy relationship with a roommate.

There is absolutely nothing selfish about wanting good sex or just sex.

5

Some good answers there, divea.

6

[quote=“Jaboney”]Some good answers there, divea.[/quote]+1

7

An obligation to fidelity does not end, unless you want your entire marriage to end.

We are corporal beings. We can’t divorce ourselves from our bodies. Our bodies are part of the deal. I understand that people can have sex that is unemotional or meaningless, but you go home in the same body you cheated in. Your body felt those sensations and harbors the memories in a physical mind.

If a partner is very ill and can’t perform, or isn’t likely to recover, IMO an agreement could be worked out between them. However, this agreement would be very, very selfless on the part of the sick partner and I’d hope that any partner of mine would turn down my offer of permission to find sex elsewhere.

Having said that, participation in sexual acts with your wife/husband is as much of a requirement in a marriage as not having extramarital sex. Sex is a physical need, like food or water, or shelter. We need healthy sex in order to be healthy people. Marriage is a unique relationship in that it limits access to this needed thing to only the marriage partner. No other relationship limits access to something one needs to stay healthy. Even marriage doesn’t limit any other physical need. So staying faithful does include staying committed to meeting your partner’s sexual needs.

This includes being open to certain acts that one partner hasn’t tried or doesn’t prefer. Not all the time, maybe, but being open to trying something, or at least talking about it. There has to be enough trust in a marriage to make this possible, or the marriage isn’t good anyway. But both partners need to be respectful and loving through the process.

This is a good topic for discussion, IMO. You get into a marriage and, usually you went in all excited and unable to imagine feeling closer to, or wanting, anyone else. Then a year or two in, you wake up and realize that THIS is IT. It can be a very harsh reality. For both men and women. And it’s something to try to think about as objectively as possible.

8

Maybe it’s better to think, not in terms of duty, but in terms of consequences.

So, what kind of life to husband and wife want? Do they want to stay married? Can they stay married? Is some sort of compromise possible or desirable? If not, then the time to get out is now.

It would be a very good idea to open up to each other about this, being completely honest.

9

Jessica Alba.

10

Divea

I think its time you accepted that the majority of porn users are housewives, and that as a statistical rule, women cheat more than men.

Neither of these facts change your sound advice of course - but suggesting that women are always such innocents is really not healthy - afterall they have been fighting for equality for almost 100 years now. :slight_smile:

11

[quote=“Edgar Allen”]Divea

I think its time you accepted that the majority of porn users are housewives, and that as a statistical rule, women cheat more than men. . . .[/quote]

Are you serious? I find this very hard to believe . . . unless of course you consider Vogue, Cosmo, and Woman’s Day porn.

12

I think Diveas answers carry lots of merit. Wanna cheat? WAtch Unfaithful. Shit can happen when one cheats.

13

Jessica Alba.[/quote]Not. Going. To. Happen. Fair to say that you WILL remain faithful. :laughing:

14

Watch who your cheating with. There’s always some blowback. Even if only in your own head.

15

[quote=“zender”][quote=“Edgar Allen”]Divea

I think its time you accepted that the majority of porn users are housewives, and that as a statistical rule, women cheat more than men. . . .[/quote]

Are you serious? I find this very hard to believe . . . unless of course you consider Vogue, Cosmo, Woman’s Day porn.[/quote]

Zender, Zender, Zender - think outside of the box for a change.
Housewives spend their time at home bored, they are sexual beings as acknowledged even by auntie Divea, and they have access to cable, the internet, Satellite TV, the husband’s stash and so on. Whilst men may be the biggest purchasers, women and housewives in particular are now acknowledged as the biggest users.

16

They may have more free time, but I refuse to believe that they are using porn more than men. Your idea that housewives can’t wait for their hubbies to leave, so they can dig out his Penthouse collection is laughable.

What does the market say? What percentage of porn (movies and magazines) is geared toward women?

I’m guessing a lot of women would rather go shopping or get their hair done than have sex. Men? I don’t think so.

I could be convinced otherwise, but I’d like to see some numbers or studies.

ETA - daniweb.com/news/story218774.html

The full study is to be published in the Journal of Adolescent Research in January, but . . .
Of course, the real lack of surprise comes when you look at how many young men look at porn, online or off, and see that the figure is an incredible 86 percent (compared to the 31 percent of women who said the same.) A whopping 20 percent admit to viewing pornography daily compared to a meagre 3.4 percent of young women who obviously have more productive things to do with their time.

This is about young people, but still . . .

17

EA, I never said women were innocent, what part of they wanting more sex, should masturbate, makes them sound innocent?? Porn was just an example…and speaking about Porn, I don’t get how it turns women on??? Who are making these statistics??? All the women I know who have watched porn either hate it completely or giggle through it…what does turn them on though is that their partners are all set to do the raunchy thing with them after the feature film. Nothing and I mean nothing turns a woman on more than being wanted, desired, coveted, lusted after…if she knows you want her, she will give it to you …good…no, better than you expected.

18

No man can compete against a vibrator ! But at least you should strive to be second best.

19

Some interesting points, many of which I agree with.

First and foremost, a very serious commitment is just that. You made that vow intending never to break it (or made it in bad faith).

In terms of consequences, there can be only one rational answer. Don’t do it. But at what point do people become willing to risk something they value? Bearing in mind that human risk analysis is fairly non-rational. We all risk things we value - it’s too simplistic to say you don’t value it enough because you took the risk. I think awareness and evaluation of consequences is an important part of life intelligence.

I don’t 100% accept that potentially widely differing needs or tastes are not possible in an otherwise healthy relationship, though the deeper the trust and security the less likely they are to be a problem.

I read in an article once something along the lines of “she wouldn’t give head, he got it elsewhere so they were both breaking their marital vows in one way or another”. A commitment to blow jobs seems a bit of an extreme interpretation of marital vows, though you can see that there might be problems.

I’ve heard Taiwanese men say it’s not being unfaithful if you pay for it (haven’t heard westerners say that but I’m not saying none think that way). Don’t agree myself.

I’ve yet to meet a man who would shout about it if he didn’t get any.

This is the point. Do we write off anyone with an unsatisfying sex life as being in a dysfunctional relationship? I don’t think so. It seems presumptuous, if not arrogant - if you’re not getting enough there’s something wrong with your relationship. I see the holistic nature of relationships - but that doesn’t mean all issues are connected. Should they then be committed to an unsatisfying/ non existent sex life till death do them part?

20

I think that is the problem. People are stuck between the old paradigm of death do them part (not to say that even then people didn’t break social norms) to the current situation in society when people just get divorced because they are unhappy or think the pasture is greener on the other side.