The long arm of the law: Cuban cigars

In another thread, an American poster implied that he’ll smoke Cuban cigars if Obama wins the election. Since this poster is in Taiwan, that’s no problem, right? Wrong. From the United States Treasury:

[quote]The question is often asked whether United States citizens or permanent resident aliens of the United States may legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and alcohol products, in a third country for personal use outside the United States. The answer is no.

The Regulations prohibit persons subject to the jurisdiction of the United States from purchasing, transporting, importing, or otherwise dealing in or engaging in any transactions with respect to any merchandise outside the United States if such merchandise (1) is of Cuban origin; or
(2) is or has been located in or transported from or through Cuba; or
(3) is made or derived in whole or in part of any article which is the growth, produce or manufacture of Cuba. Thus, in the case of cigars, the prohibition extends to cigars manufactured in Cuba and sold in a third country and to cigars manufactured in a third country from tobacco grown in Cuba.[/quote]

What do you think of THAT?

the ONE question I thought that panel should have asked Clinton regarding the Lewinsky business and THAT cigar was, what were it’s origins? You could have really nailed the bastard if it was the full Cohiba!

HG

[quote=“Gao Bohan”]

What do you think of THAT?[/quote]
I have here a lovely encrusted chocolate starfish, Uncle Sam. You’re welcome to lick and nuzzle it to your heart’s content. :roflmao:

I wonder if you can get a reward if you turn people in.

I have no idea what that means, but I doubt it means anything good.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. It means “pogue mahone, motherfucker!”,

I think this sentence may be the key…

As far as I know, a U.S. citizen residing outside the U.S. is NOT “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” and is instead subject to the laws of their current country of residence. Hence your ability to get stoned in Amsterdam or freqent brothels in Thailand…

While neither of those activities may be a good idea or without legal and/or moral ramifications in THAT country, the U.S. cannot extend its laws to other sovereign nations without that nation’s consent. Likewise, people are only extradited for international crimes or crimes committed on U.S. soil, leading them to flee overseas to avoid prosecution.

Exceptions would be U.S. military personnel or other government employees who remain subject to U.S. laws and often fall under separate legal agreements with their host countries. If THEY attempt to trade in Cuban goods (or get high in Amsterdam, or visit brothels in ANY country), they can be prosecuted.

If I’m wrong & Americans living overseas are prohibited from buying such items, I’ll buy you a bottle of Havana Club :slight_smile:

Hmmm…it is true that you are under the juristiction of whatever country you reside; however, I believe that the US retains the right to prosecute you for violation of US law even if you are outside of the US. An example I think would be the FCPA laws. Those might be a special case though…I’m not a lawyer, so… :ponder:

Anyway - if that is true then why do I have to pay taxes?

I think this sentence may be the key…

As far as I know, a U.S. citizen residing outside the U.S. is NOT “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” and is instead subject to the laws of their current country of residence.[/quote]

So how does it remain illegal for US citizens to visit Cuba? How can they be prosecuted on their return for actions committed outside of US jurisdiction?

Similarly, a search on “prosecuted underage sex overseas” reveals the following at the top of the list:

He’s not being prosecuted in Cambodia. He’s being taken home to be prosecuted under US law. We have, at the top of this thread, the US Treasury saying that US law applies to Americans wherever they may be, and we have Americans being taken home and tried in the USA for crimes committed overseas. I’m pretty sure this means that Americans living overseas are prohibited from buying such items…

:discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance:

You can place your order via The Chief.

Technically, brothels/prostitution is illegal in Thailand, it’s just never enforced.

Whereas it is not illegal in the UK. Britain is now going after paedos who are at it overseas.

[quote=“Gao Bohan”]

What do you think of THAT?[/quote]

I think they can blow me.

:discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance: :discodance:

You can place your order via The Chief.[/quote]
Hmm… well, I’m still not entirely convinced. But, in the interest of following both the letter and spirit of the law, and out of concern for the good of the oppressed people of Cuba, I’m afraid I cannot willingly enter into any transaction or dealings involving the purchase, sale, import, export, etc, etc of Cuban products… (…unless you’re a hot single girl… are you? a hot single girl? … cuz then, y’know, what’s the harm?)

Ha, the land of the ‘Free’ …

I think this sentence may be the key…

As far as I know, a U.S. citizen residing outside the U.S. is NOT “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” and is instead subject to the laws of their current country of residence. Hence your ability to get stoned in Amsterdam or freqent brothels in Thailand…

While neither of those activities may be a good idea or without legal and/or moral ramifications in THAT country, the U.S. cannot extend its laws to other sovereign nations without that nation’s consent. Likewise, people are only extradited for international crimes or crimes committed on U.S. soil, leading them to flee overseas to avoid prosecution.

Exceptions would be U.S. military personnel or other government employees who remain subject to U.S. laws and often fall under separate legal agreements with their host countries. If THEY attempt to trade in Cuban goods (or get high in Amsterdam, or visit brothels in ANY country), they can be prosecuted.

If I’m wrong & Americans living overseas are prohibited from buying such items, I’ll buy you a bottle of Havana Club :slight_smile:[/quote]

Err…no. The language is very clear.

And of course, it is also illegal for Americans to enter Cuba unless given special permission. I just thought it was funny that the embargo against Cuba has gone so far. What a joke.

I think this sentence may be the key…

As far as I know, a U.S. citizen residing outside the U.S. is NOT “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” and is instead subject to the laws of their current country of residence. Hence your ability to get stoned in Amsterdam or freqent brothels in Thailand…

While neither of those activities may be a good idea or without legal and/or moral ramifications in THAT country, the U.S. cannot extend its laws to other sovereign nations without that nation’s consent. Likewise, people are only extradited for international crimes or crimes committed on U.S. soil, leading them to flee overseas to avoid prosecution.

Exceptions would be U.S. military personnel or other government employees who remain subject to U.S. laws and often fall under separate legal agreements with their host countries. If THEY attempt to trade in Cuban goods (or get high in Amsterdam, or visit brothels in ANY country), they can be prosecuted.

If I’m wrong & Americans living overseas are prohibited from buying such items, I’ll buy you a bottle of Havana Club :slight_smile:[/quote]

Err…no. The language is very clear.

And of course, it is also illegal for Americans to enter Cuba unless given special permission. I just thought it was funny that the embargo against Cuba has gone so far. What a joke.[/quote]

Ha, some joke. I’ve gotten grilled more than once by US immigration in Montreal returning to the US about suspected trips to Cuba. (No I didn’t).

Indeed! Yes, the Cuba issue is utter hypocrisy for the US when it comes to issues of individual freedom.

For example, US citizens are forbidden by US law to travel to Cuba, and can be prosecuted if found guilty of this “crime”.

In the meantime, I think I’ll drink a Cuba Libre made with…a certain rum mentioned earlier in this thread!

I too–out of concern for the oppressed Cubans of southern Florida–undertake to similarly abstain from smoking Cubans.

(Is there a smiley that comes with a machine gun?)

(Or better yet, an image of “Superman” from The Godfather, Part II.)

REMEMBER ELIAN GONZALES !!!

Bring a camel to this man
Perched on a bough her tresses hang down
The girl from the Wadi Hammamat
She is as sweet as a green parakeet

I have to admit i once thought cigars were pretentious nonsense, but a few hits at decent cigars have turned me around completely.

By far the best I’ve had of late was the Cohiba Siglo II.

Why Americans feel it necessary to deny themselves this pleasure I have no idea, but i do recall they also once tried banning alcohol. Must have something to do with the country’s puritanical origins.

HG