The Mind boggles: Ex-DPP chair for unification, admires Deng

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Bu Lai En,

So you must be aware of the TSU latest antics of burning CKS picture in public, causing supporters to throw eggs at TSU offices and have VP Lu speaking out against LTH stating that without CJG, LTH would have never been president of Taiwan.

LTH is not commonly called a Ri Nu (Japanese House Slave) in the media on Taiwan for giggles.

One must wonder if LTH new goal in life is to be radical as possible to scare people in selecting a more moderated party and platform.[/quote]

Is that your “proof”?

Have to do better than that.

[quote]Is that your “proof”?

Have to do better than that[/quote]

Exactly.

Of course I’m aware that other pan-Blues are ready to repeat general rumours and allegations of Lee being Japan’s slave or whatever, but I’ve never found out why. I’ve heard a lot of contradictory rumours, but nothing real.

Come on, ac, back-up your statements or stop repeating them.

brian

When LTH suggested the Diaoyutai should be handed over to Japan, in order to strengthen the claim of Taidu, it sure did raise a lot of eyebrows on Taiwan and started the ball rolling LTH being a Japanese House Slave.

Sort of like Clarence Thomas and is views on affirmative action in the USA, got him labeled as a House Slave by the Black community.

So Diaoyutai is to be handed over to Japan?

I thought it was under internationally recognized Japanese sovereignty already, having reverted to Japan from US along with Okinawa in 1972.

Also, when that took place, Chiang Kai-Shek did not raise any objections…

Remember that it was the US, which as victor after the Second World War was responsible for disposing of the areas under Imperial japanese control. They choose to hand Diaoyutai to Japan.

The Diaoyutai Islands vis-a-vis Japan is analagous to Taiwan vis-a-vis Mainland China.

Patriotic Taiwanese/Chinese people during that time (and now), did not and do not recognize the Japanese claims over those islands. For someone like LTH to suggest/hint that those islands are Japanese or to be given to Japan is unconscionable.

Hence, LTH being reviled as a Japanese tool.

Not so! PRC and ROC vigorously opposed

[quote]http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/ice/DIAOYU.HTM
In 1970, the U.S. and Japan signed the Okinawa Reversion Treaty which included Diaoyu Islands as part of Okinawa to be returned to Japanese rule. This Treaty was immediately challenged by both ROC (Taiwan) and PRC (mainland China). The dispute came into the open when the Japanese government delivered a note to the ROC government stating that its bids to exploit the oil potential around the island were not valid. [3] In September 1970, a Taiwanese gunboat planted the ROC flag on the islands. In December, the PRC intervened in this dispute, stating that the Diaoyu (and Taiwan) were China’s territory and that exploitation of the area by foreign countries would not be tolerated. [4] At first the U.S. government appeared to support the Japanese claim. However, because the U.S. government wanted to improve relations with the PRC, it then took a neutral stance over the dispute. The U.S. claimed that its involvement could, “…in no way prejudice any underlying claims… The United States…considers that any conflicting claims are a matter for resolution by the parties concerned.” [5] Since this time, the U.S. government has studiously avoided involvement in the dispute.
[/quote]

In regards to Lee Teng Hui and the shrill geriatric core of the Taidu elite, I believe Bevin Chu said it best when describing their loyalties.

[quote]Taiwan “independence” truly is an oxymoron. The Taiwan independence
leaders’ lips flap and ringing affirmations of “independence” issue forth, but
the Taiwan independence leaders’ insides are incarcerated in a psychic prison
of complete and utter dependency. Dependent materially on the US Navy’s Seventh
Fleet for their “independent” political status, and dependent psychologically
on Japan for their sense of pseudo self-esteem as ersatz Japanese. The Taiwan
independence leadership has made zero effort to come to terms with their
unresolved issues through introspection. Instead, they have taken their
personal/collective psychological conflict and externalized it as an
international political conflict. Their very real emotional pain, which
deserves to be dealt with, but on a therapist’s couch or in an encounter group,
is instead on the verge of being played out as deadly psychodrama on the
battlefield.[/quote]

I stand corrected on the matter of ROC and PRC not protesting.

However, this hardly bears on my main argument, which is that the area was handed to Japan in 1972 by the US. If the US has been truly neutral, it would have awaited international arbitration before handing the area to the winner of the arbitration. Instead, it handed ti to Japan mroe than one year after it was supposed to be neutral.

In 1990, USA claims they did not hand over soveriegnty of Diaoyutai to Japan but only administrative authority.

Whatever? sounds like another Isreal in the making. Foriegn occupier leaving a power vaccuum for the locals to resolve. I suspect PRC will resolve the issue in about 20 years with Japan.

I’m only using it as an example of why LTH is percieved as a Japanese House Slave among a portion of the people of Taiwan.

Even though Hsu Hsin-liang is a founding member of the DPP and 2 time leader of the party. No one has yet accused him of being a Japanese House Slave.

So you’re saying that Lee is a Japanese House Slave for saying that the Diaoyutai Islands, which are already a part of Japan should be a part of Japan?

Of course it’s clear that to follow a consiostent pro-Taiwan policy one should say that Taiwan must go to the Taiwanese, Diaoyutai Islands to Japan, Jinmen and Matzu to China, Mongolia to the Mongolians etc. The reason pan-Blues don’t like this, is that they still believe Taiwan=ROC=China, so the still think that Tibet, Mongolia etc should all be ROC territory.

ac, your evidence that Lee is a Japanese house=slave, is pretty thin so far.

Brian

Hahahahahahaha!!! I can’t believe someone just quoted Bevin Chu. I didn’t realize that old hack was still around. Just remember… his opinions are not regarded very highly in most circles outside the New Party. Bevin Chu Ha! Sorry, this is too funny. Does he still have that goofy website of his?

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]So you’re saying that Lee is a Japanese House Slave for saying that the Diaoyutai Islands, which are already a part of Japan should be a part of Japan?

Of course it’s clear that to follow a consiostent pro-Taiwan policy one should say that Taiwan must go to the Taiwanese, Diaoyutai Islands to Japan, Jinmen and Matzu to China, Mongolia to the Mongolians etc. The reason pan-Blues don’t like this, is that they still believe Taiwan=ROC=China, so the still think that Tibet, Mongolia etc should all be ROC territory.

ac, your evidence that Lee is a Japanese house=slave, is pretty thin so far.

Brian[/quote]
I have to disagree the evidence is pretty obvious that LTH is an ethnic turn coat in this instance. Is Taidu that overriding, that one must start giving up Chinese territory to support it. Why not give up Northern Taiwan to the Pan-Blue then, and just declare Taidu in Southern Taiwan?

At what length is Taidu logic justified when it comes to the geographic integrity of a Nation-State of Hoklo?

[quote=“ac_dropout”]I have to disagree the evidence is pretty obvious that LTH is an ethnic turn coat in this instance. Is Taidu that overriding, that one must start giving up Chinese territory to support it. Why not give up Northern Taiwan to the Pan-Blue then, and just declare Taidu in Southern Taiwan?

At what length is Taidu logic justified when it comes to the geographic integrity of a Nation-State of Hoklo?[/quote]

??? :loco:

First of all, how can you give up something you don’t have - last time I looked, the Senkaku islands were under Japan?

Secondly, what do you mean by ethnic turn-coat?

I like the idea that you could give up parts of Taiwan’s territory to the blue bunglers. Let me suggest Jinmen and Mazu. Once Lian Zhan and friends have been sent there, it could suitably be handed over to the PRC. :smiley:

I think it is a great idea to give back kimmin and quemoy, we should move out all the mainlanders to those islands and then give them back to China. That way Taiwan will lose 15% of its unwanted population and be allowed to grow and be Taiwanese!

Well, I would never sort based on ethnicity, just offer them to settle there with government support, after which I would allow the area to be 'reunified" with China.

The easiest way to settle it is for CSB to get some LP and say he doesn’t want/need US support, and then just declare independence and see what happens. This way he won’t be unnecessarily putting the lives of young American GI’s at risk with his terrible approach to foreign policy and he can get what he wants. It’s none of my concern if he wants to push for Taiwanese independence. That’s up to the authorities and people of Taiwan to decide. What I’m opposed to is his dragging the US into a war that he instigated and could have been avoided.

  1. He didn’t give up any territory.

  2. How could he give up ‘Chinese’ territory?

There is absolutely no logic to your argument.

Brian

What’s LP?

Also, I don’t think that you can drag the US into any battle they don’t want to fight.

I would call his approack to foreign policy “good”. Compares well with earlier Taiwanese leaders, such as CKS, CCK.

Also, aren’t we off topic here?

i’m beginning to think cmdjing = bevin chu, and he is just quoting himself… :laughing: and who would blame him, seeing as how bevin chu has been SO influential in taiwanese and cross-strait politics with his angry diatribe. :laughing:

Basically if you compare the platforms of Hsu and LTH, you will see obviously Hsu is not an ethnic turn coat and sees that PRC is fundamental to ROC economic well being. That Hsu actually believes in the higher standard of what a democracy is suppose to be.

LTH is not only an ethnic turn coat, he has no allegiance to the ROC. Meeting with the Dali Lama and suggesting that ROC should just concede Diaoyutai to Japan, is utter nonsense.

To be honest I believe LTH behavior is link to the fact his child is dead. With no heir burdened to save family face or live down his name, LTH can act as foolishly as he chooses.