The narratives about Trump thread.


#3847

So the fact that Hillary conspired with CNN to gain a leg up on Bernie Sanders during the Dem primary debates - you figure most Americans just blithely went on assuming that Trump was wrong when he accused her of being corrupt?

Look, I voted for Hillary anyway but I should have known better. Better people than me, I"m sure, decided Trump was a better choice and voted for Stein or Trump (or McMullen).

I still can’t believe how Democrats can’t admit to themselves that Clinton was as corrupt as a Chicago alderman. Good grief. Trump may be corrupt, but Hillary is clearly corrupt.

It’s perfectly reasonable to think that Trump was the better choice in 2016.


#3848

I’ll agree she is horrible, but disagree she was the worse choice between two insufferable candidates.


#3849

But do you agree that given the two major-party candidates, it is reasonable to have voted for Trump?


#3850

Are they obligated to? From their perspective his policies his policies and actions don’t warrant it. Is he entitled to support no matter what he does?


#3851

No, but they don’t also have to purposely be against him no mater what and put stories like the covington thing to make it seem like it’s trump with the maga hate. Why do you think they rushed that out without checking or did check but just wanted to do the damage knowing it was wrong.


#3852

No, I don’t believe so. I’m sure we disagree on this.


#3853

I’m not surprised. Your opinion is shared by many on the left.

Your inability to admit that voting for Trump was reasonable (given Hillary) is a major part of why the US is so divided today.


#3854

I wanted to vote for Hillary, I supported her in the beginning. I really dislike the REP in general, I still don’t like them that much but Trump isn’t really towing Rep party line either. But man, she said nothing in any of her debates. What was she going to do? I have no idea. And the whole vote for me so I can be a the first female president got old, how does this help me or improve the country? Her foreign policy was exactly what it was for the past administrations and they did not work so well, why would I let her keep doing that?


#3855

I don’t identify as left or right. Insistence on thinking along partisan lines is why America is divided.

I can despise Clinton but think of reasons to vote for her (health care, education, policies etc)
I despise Trump and see no reason to support him as I don’t believe his policies are wise and he’s damaging the country for a lot of other reasons.

Outside of winning political victories for one party, what good is he doing? Can you list actual policies you feel are making America better? Name them…


#3856

I definitely agree she ran an abysmal campaign and gave no reasons for anyone to care about her. I don’t think I would have walked 10 minutes down the road to go see her talk.

Reasons: Health Care, Education, Economic policy, tax policy.

But no doubt, the Dems just seemed to think Trump would shoot himself in the foot and they could win on being not Trump, which was arrogant and a bad miscalculation.

If you look at Clinton’s actual platform, she had some decent ideas. That she never bothered even to try to sell to Americans because they thought pointing out his bigoted actions would be enough.


#3857

There are long lists of them, and I am not going to go into a long list.

One very big reason to vote for Trump (and especially to support him now), though, is that his fiscal policy is both pro-growth and designed to shrink the burden put on American taxpayers by our public debt. Huge.

If Clinton had been elected we’d have seen more biz regulation, not less. More taxes, not less. Less cheerleading for US industry abroad and at home, not more. Odds are excellent that we’d have gone down the rabbit hole of hobbling (if not wrecking outright) the US economy in the uncertain, unproven hope of halting climate change.

Certainly we’d have continued international trade without even considering the idea that the US is in a position to leverage improvements.


#3858

I disagree with so much of this that I don’t know where to start. I need to stop staring at screens. Will get back later


#3859

It’s only fair for you to list her platform ideas that turned you on, as you’re asking the same of others about Trump.


#3860

Exactly, how does this help the middle class and lower class? I can’t compete with starbucks not because my coffee isn’t better and offer better value…I can’t compete with starbucks because I can’t afford to jump through the hoops of regulations from, local, state, to federal levels just to make a cup of coffee. And if I finally find a way and succeed, now i’m going to get slapped for higher taxes for being successful? Come on now :pensive:

And whats this idea of when asked who will pay for all these free things like education, saying the rich? How about everyone!


#3861

How did you reach the conclusion that it’s because of the regulations that you can’t compete? Any studies?
Starbucks main advantages are its brand and size resulting in higher discount in supply chain. If anything higher taxes on starbucks makes me more competetive.
Also it’s higher marginal tax not higher tax, meaning you will pay slightly more on the “success” income over those limits. You will not be punished for it you will only benefit less.


#3862

If you’ve never owned a business in the US and met a payroll (like most people), then you have no idea how much government, especially unnecessary egalitarianism, gets in the way. Handicapped bathrooms, handicapped parking slots and signs, collecting federal and state taxes, collecting FICA tax: that’s just the beginning.

The less government has its nose in business, the easier it is to start a successful business. That makes a business easier to sell, adding liquidity to the market. All of this makes it easier to run a business that revolves 100% around your customers, and this strengthens the economy as a whole.

Business regulation is a creature loved only by those who do not own a business. In many cases (but not all), regulation does more harm than good. Trump gets this and he’s acted accordingly. One reason among many that the economy has boomed even while Trump is a clown on his Twitter account and in the national news.


#3863

@homersimpsun gave a great example of comcast. Regulations made it impossible for any competition. It’s not a secrete that big corporations can comply with the regulations, if they can’t they have a legion of lawyers that can bend things their way, if that doesn’t work they can lobby and change the laws in their favor. Can I do that as a individual wanting to start a start up?

Starbucks was just an example…i didn’t mean for you take it literal. My uncle owned a donut shop, it took 2 years for the shop to open where he could not make income because he had to apply for so many permits, checks and follow city regulations of the buildings. They made him change the building like 2 times to comply. And it’s not that they shouldn’t be done, but they happen so slowly and cost a lot. You apply for one permit, takes like 3-4 months to get a reply. If they say no, apply again waiting another 4 months. It was a nightmare.


#3864

Great example. No one would have ever put handicapp bathrooms if it wasn’t for the regulations since It doesn’t make sense economically. This would effectively disenfranchise the handicapped. I hesitate to call it unwanted, not saying I agree with forcing it either but just that there’s more to it than being just annoying.


#3865

That I agree with. The main problem with governments as a whole but especially democratic ones is that they are slow to adapt. It gets worse in polarized times like today as well.
Many first world countries have convoluted regulations for sure. Allowing loopholes and being a pain for new small businesses. But most people who say they are against regulation tend to back policies that could lead to environmental and health disasters so I prefer to err on that side.


#3866

It’s beginning to look like consumer-facing businesses will have to think about adding small unisex bathrooms, too, largely to avoid conflicts irl and in social media with non-binary Americans that can completely wreck a business.

Adding a new unisex bathroom, or several, is not inexpensive. They have to be kept clean etc., a biz owner is going to pay more in insurance (maybe): in general a unisex bathroom is nothing but another business expense - although a newly important one.

Democrats would probably encode this in the law like yesterday. Republicans under Trump have been able to avoid any new regulation, at least so far.