The narratives about Trump thread

I’m thinking you meant “US to El Salvador” instead.

The level of tolerance the US has shown the whole issue of illegal immigration, for decades now, has just been poisonous to the electorate. In has a hand in explaining red vs blue states, alt-right vs GOP, alt-right vs Democrats, rural vs urban, income inequality, poor infrastructure, and others (not complete explanations, I admit, but illegal immigration is where the rule of US law is most evidently abused).

It’s also tied in with national security. For better or worse the US military has been in the Middle East for the past quarter century. European nations, too, and we’ve seen what a less than rational opening of borders has done to national security there.

Throw in global trade and its effect on lower income Americans, and immigration reform becomes a good way to improve things domestically.

True, true. The best part about MS-13 is how it brings some vibrant color to immigrants and their communities. Ok mostly red, but still.

Yes, my bad. Salvadoreans to El Salvador… US might see some bank fees, the exit/entry charges from TPS people, nothing serious.

Just do not get over enthusiastic kicking people out. Bath, baby and all that jazz.

throne of lies

In case you need it, the number is 119 in Taiwan and not 911.

trump hillary

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fed

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Just curious, which photo is that boner pointing at? (there’s no wrong answer)

I can’t answer that in an open setting.

Indiscriminately opening one’s borders to hordes of refugees fleeing violence and promising low cost labor is nothing new:

The Gothic War is the name given to a Gothic uprising in the Eastern Roman Empire in the Balkans between about 376 and 382. The war and in particular the Battle of Adrianople, is commonly seen as a watershed in the history of the Roman Empire, the first of a series of events over the next century that would see the collapse of the Western Roman Empire . . . .

In the summer of 376, a massive number of Goths arrived on the Danube River, the border of the Roman Empire, requesting asylum from the Huns. . . .

The Goths sent ambassadors to Valens, the Eastern Roman Emperor, requesting permission to settle their people inside the Empire. . . . Ancient sources are unanimous that Valens was pleased at the appearance of the Goths, as it offered the opportunity of new soldiers at low cost. . . .
The Thervings were probably allowed to cross at or near the fortress of Durostorum. They were ferried by the Romans in boats, rafts and in hollowed tree-trunks and “diligent care was taken that no future destroyer of the Roman state should be left behind, even if he were smitten by a fatal disease,” according to (Roman historian) Ammianus Marcellinus. Even so, the river swelled with rain and many drowned. The Goths were to have their weapons confiscated but the Romans in charge accepted bribes to allow the Goths to retain their weapons or perhaps due to there being so many Goths and so few Roman soldiers, not all of them could be adequately checked. . . .

Time to call in a special prosecutor…

You think maybe the Donald is really a Donna?

I was referring to @gaboman, but now that you mention it, the small hands are a dead giveaway!

A parallel was being drawn between immigration (legal or otherwise) and wage stagnation. In the US, correlation is not causation, vis a vis immigration.

If you look at it strictly from an L & O POV, then illegal immigration is bad, regardless the reasons. But, you cannot cherry pick Law and Order. If we are going to apply right/wrong to this, then it should be extended across the board. You know, like conspiring to do business with a sanctioned nation. I believe that is treason. Anyway.

However, illegal immigration has a positive effect on the overall economy, and is not the criminal infestation xenophobes make it out to be.

Immigration reform will do nothing to improve the conditions for low income US citizens. Many are unskilled workers whose jobs are being replaced by machines, or cheaper labor in China. Cannot compete with China on from a labor standpoint. The only way to improve the conditions for low skilled workers is to get them skilled, offer a universal wage, or protectionism from foreign trade and tariffs. Good luck with that!

Selecting only highly skilled workers is fine for posterity. But, how many Western Europeans want to come to the US? How many Canadians? Most come from Asia, and as the conditions improve in their home nations, or as restrictions kick in, that will eventually fall off. The trend in the US is to shun the college and universities. This might have a detrimental effect in the future.

Immigration will do a great deal to improve conditions for low income US citizens. For one it shows them that the US is following the rule of law. Nobody benefits when the law is not enforced. All Americans benefit when they are.

There is also a not insignificant benefit to everyone that comes from improved national security. The US has been pretty lucky so far, not many bad actors coming in illegally. That could change. Immigration reform will hopefully both prevent bad actors coming in and provide low income Americans an increased sense of security (all Americans, in fact).

Does following the rule of law extend to not attempting to solicit business from sanctioned nations and charging those accused of such with treason?

Sure it extends to not attempting to solicit business from sanctioned nations. Treason probably doesn’t follow automatically, though. Not in all cases. Treason isn’t a charge to be thrown around lightly.

Ah, the national security. What are the statistics on crimes committed by those in the US illegally versus those committed by legal immigrants and citizens?

I am not trying to defend illegal immigration, but I am sorry, the idea that immigration reform will somehow greatly benefit low income workers is not making any sense in the grand scheme of things.
Reforming immigration laws to improve security is a little like owning a gun for the same purpose. Little more than a security blanket. Immigration reform will have about as much affect on national security and overall crime as a bandaid will have on stopping the bleeding from a severed limb. Timothy McVeigh, not an immigrant. Clive Bundy, not an immigrant.

Immigrants are the easiest target. They get blamed for everything and it is rarely if at all their fault. The only thing that will help low income workers is comprehensive economic reform.

Only if you assume that all problems of low income Americans are economic ones.

Obviously there are things these Americans value over income. I think they’re due a confirmation that the law is enforced consistently and routinely. I think they would benefit from that knowledge; I also think they would benefit economically if they work now in landscaping or farm labor or other industries that employ illegal immigrants intensively.

Low income Americans are also among the most likely to think, perhaps irrationally, that they wold be a target of terrorism. Internet is rife with stories of Americans in rural Arkansas concerned about terrorism. I’m not judging them for any irrationality, but I do believe they would feel better if immigration reform resulted in greater national security.

Not all about the benjamins, man.