The Other Carbon Problem: ocean acidification

It’s a bit glitchy. I’m only mentioning it because if WE don’t THEY will and because things that aren’t “perfectly” logical drive me a bit bonko. I’m a bit odd that way I’ve come to realize. Just recently actually after watching the film Mary ansd Max. Great movie, btw.

Well, back in the regular world, alkalinity is only defined in relationship to acidity, it seems. But it’s more fun in a little b bob world. Toodle pip. Time to go in the reverse direction of not-bed.

So, reduced ability to neutralize an acid makes it, more acid?

“Sure” said Ted. “Why not?”

On a related note, they have apparenetly “just” made it a crime to be an illegal immigrant in Arizona. I don’t know what it was before, a parade?

Bob, we all know that the oceans “absorb CO2.” Do the plankton and vegetation in the sea absorb CO2 and produce Oxygen much in the same way as land plants do via photosynthesis?

If so, will the sea acidification accelerate as lifeforms die off?

i mentioned the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation earlier. It is tricky to present equations in the font and style available here, so check the link for a better description. However, to put it simply as it applies to CO2 and H2O, it looks like this:

                 H2O  +  CO2  <—> H2CO3  <—> HCO3-  + H+

It is the actual water that absorbs CO2 by turning into bicarbonate ions and hydrogen ions, i.e. an acid. These are held in solution in the rest of the water. The resultant acid dissolves the carbonate shells of diatoms and of shellfish and dissolves coral reefs, and concrete too for that matter. It also affects the ability of algae to thrive, but may be offset by a slight increase in the rate of photosynthesis. However, any positive effect on photosynthesis is weak, as the rate limiting factor for photosynthesis is the ability to capture sunlight, not the availability of CO2.

Ok, thanks for explaining.

There is this (as per urodacus’ instructions)…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henderson% … h_equation

All perfectly straightforward and easy to understand etc…

[quote=“Vorkosigan”]
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the average pH of ocean surface waters has decreased approximately 0.1 unit – from about 8.2 to 8.1 – making them more acidic. Models project an additional 0.2 to 0.3 drop by the end of the century. [/quote]

The beginning of the industrial revolution…let’s see around 1780. So who measured the oceans pH at that time and what technology did they use?

As an analogy: If athlete x in 1860 runs a 500 meter sprint timed with a guy with a starting pistol at one end of the track and a guy with a stopwatch at the other end of the track and athlete y in 2010 runs the same sprint with todays technology. Did athlete y actually beat athlete x’s record by 3 hundredths of a second?

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Vorkosigan”]
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the average pH of ocean surface waters has decreased approximately 0.1 unit – from about 8.2 to 8.1 – making them more acidic. Models project an additional 0.2 to 0.3 drop by the end of the century. [/quote]

The beginning of the industrial revolution…let’s see around 1780. So who measured the oceans pH at that time and what technology did they use?

As an analogy: If athlete x in 1860 runs a 500 meter sprint timed with a guy with a starting pistol at one end of the track and a guy with a stopwatch at the other end of the track and athlete y in 2010 runs the same sprint with todays technology. Did athlete y actually beat athlete x’s record by 3 hundredths of a second?[/quote]
You can use cores from old corals to get a continuous record of PH variability for as far back as the age of the coral.

[quote=“zyzzx”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Vorkosigan”]
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the average pH of ocean surface waters has decreased approximately 0.1 unit – from about 8.2 to 8.1 – making them more acidic. Models project an additional 0.2 to 0.3 drop by the end of the century. [/quote]

The beginning of the industrial revolution…let’s see around 1780. So who measured the oceans pH at that time and what technology did they use?

As an analogy: If athlete x in 1860 runs a 500 meter sprint timed with a guy with a starting pistol at one end of the track and a guy with a stopwatch at the other end of the track and athlete y in 2010 runs the same sprint with todays technology. Did athlete y actually beat athlete x’s record by 3 hundredths of a second?[/quote]
You can use cores from old corals to get a continuous record of PH variability for as far back as the age of the coral.[/quote]

So it’s like using tree rings to attempt to prove AGW theory? When I was a kid, coral bleaching was a mystery, then they found the cause was crown of thorns starfish, then it was ascribed to global warming and now it’s caused by acidification of the ocean (by 0.1 of a pH point over a 200 year period).

Thanks for the info. What’s next?

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”]

So it’s like using tree rings to attempt to prove AGW theory? When I was a kid, coral bleaching was a mystery, then they found the cause was crown of thorns starfish, then it was ascribed to global warming and now it’s caused by acidification of the ocean (by 0.1 of a pH point over a 200 year period).

Thanks for the info. What’s next?[/quote]

More scientific research into the effects of human activities on the biosphere.

More research? Why is that needed? You all KNOW what is causing the problem and how serious it will be, don’t you?

More research? Why is that needed? You all KNOW what is causing the problem and how serious it will be, don’t you?[/quote]

Yes, and yes. Which does not mean that all its effects are known. Additional research may also uncover ways to ameliorate the effects of our fossil fuel addiction.

Did I miss it? How do you plan to handle the problem of the fall pH of the oceans?

Falling PH balance in the oceans. How do you know that this occurred again? How long have comprehensive global studies been in place and with what accuracy? We have seen how “comprehensive” and “accurate” the data on tidal gauges is/was. Not impressed. Got anything better for this “scare?”

I am also very familiar with governments and aid organizations. Tuvalu has nothing. Maldives has nothing. What better solution than to have a “crisis.” I have seen this too many times before. I am inured to kleptocratic politicians and their “concerns.” Scratch the surface and it usually involves a home on Australia’s Gold Coast (South Pacific) or the Riviera (Africa). Yawn. If we do not help… this tragedy will occur. Seems like we have been hearing that we have only 10 years to act … starting from the mid 1980s and now we are seeing cooling… and whatever happened to acid rain? Did it end? disappear? what? don’t even make me go down the killer bees path.

Maldives have nothing now because they’re under water? :laughing:

I think the problem we have with killer bees is we don’t have enough. Gut feeling says lack of diversity of bee species is what’s killing them.

Well, I personally am still waiting for the comprehensive global figures on “ocean acidification.” As someone who respects science, I think that this is a minimum. I am sure that Mick will agree with me.