OK now that have an adult class part time and as I am still adjusting to Taiwan there is always something new here to slap me in the face. 2 weeks ago I am reading a story w/my students about 3 girls ages 19, 20 and 21 that go to Sydney by themselves. They fly from L.A. to Sydney and stay for 12 days, party, sight see, hang out with guys etc. Come home happy.
We finish and are supposed to talk about what people can do in Australia etc, but right away one of the 50ish ladies in my class says many western parents are not responsible, I am like WHAT? huh? She points out letting girls this age travel this way is dangerous? One older gentleman also agreed and said the article mentions they call their parents on the first day in Sydney the 3rd and 10th. But the parents or girls should call every night? I then change the discussion. A few of the younger students in their 20s agree and say parents in Taiwan have them on a leash. The older students say they care about the kids’ well being and safety.
I point out these are college age girls and also young adults. I talk about at that age i drove half way across country and my sister had a BF and flew from Miami to Toronto alone at 17. I am hearing tooooo young? So I ask why should parents call kids everyday, restrict dating and such.
They tell me calling all the time shows love. Asking when a 22 year old is coming home all the time she or he goes out or saying you can’t date til you get your B.A. is good. I’ve wondered why the kids and young people and I ain’t much older then them. Say13-22 seem really naive. Enlighten me Formosans.
Part of the reason why they are overprotected is because of the education system here in which kids and students usually don’t have many other obligation except doing well in school. They live very sheltered lives where they simply, go to school, cram class afterwards, then go home and sleep. That’s why travelling and studying abroad for them seem daring, and they’re too naive to handle it.
Also you need to take into consideration that they are girls. Gender difference makes all the difference. Girls are much more vulnerable and subject to even more supervision and protection. Parents usually don’t let girls in their early 20’s to go to a foreign country. Who knows what kind of trouble they’ll get into? date rape at a party, getting amnesia from a rave party and not remembering what had happened to them only to find out they’re pregnant… and all sorts of things could happen. To parent’s it’s like opening a can of worms.
Last but not least, remember that Asia is generally speaking, more collective as a culture. Unlike the individualistic tendencies of Western counterparts. Standing out from the crowd is like a nail that sticks out. It will get hammered in, unlike the merit it gets in the western world where they are praised for being an unique individual. You can’t go screaming “it’s my life!!” like Bon Jovi does it. Or say it like TLC: “I believe it’s my life and it affects nobody else but me!”
If you ruin your own life those close to you will be affected and it’s a collateral damage.
As for the calling everyday to your parents? that’s part of the Confucius philosophy of filial piety
I agree with almost everything leviathan926 says except:
[quote]
Parents usually don’t let girls in their early 20’s to go to a foreign country. Who knows what kind of trouble they’ll get into? date rape at a party, getting amnesia from a rave party and not remembering what had happened to them only to find out they’re pregnant… and all sorts of things could happen. To parent’s it’s like opening a can of worms.[/quote]
Ahem, mine did or do you mean Taiwanese parents? I wonder how many girls here teach English and they are around 23-24. there are some for sure. Also my cousin is a cop in San Francisco and he was a campus officer at Stanford for a bit. He told me. While younger females are considered to be at a higher risk, young males have way more problems getting into trouble and dying early or being arrested.
[quote]
If you ruin your own life those close to you will be affected and it’s a collateral damage.
As for the calling everyday to your parents? that’s part of the Confucius philosophy of filial piety[/quote]
Agreed and it is too bad, Confucius died how long ago? Some of his ideas are grand, others? Outdated. But you mention the younger students agreed with you. So this is changing! People need to be responsible for their own actions too. If you son kills someone it’s sad but true it’s shame for all related to them.
Attitudes are similar in Italy- when I moved there at age 22 to be a nanny, the father of the family insisted on getting my mom’s email address. Then he wrote her an email asking if she was concerned about me moving. My Mom wrote back: “NTLT is an adult and I taught her well when she was young- she’ll be fine.”
I can see come value in collectivist culture/strong family life, but as for me and mine, I prefer the western way of doing things. Life is for living, let’s get out there and see what’s up!
Take one thing into account…
Taiwanese kids (Asian kids in general I guess) are less financially independent.
Many depend on their parents, once they’ve finished university/ masters they’d still be living at home, even after they are married.
it’s just different in Taiwan (or many Asian societies), it’s not necessarily right or wrong
(although some parents are well traditional and over protective indeed)
I came to England and studied at the age of 15, and I travelled on my own to England for summer school at 12.
My parent have taken really good care of me, but at the same time they’ve taught me how to take care of myself so they never worried about me.
Since I’m financially depend on them mostly, I always respect their opinions, and they are happy and cool with pretty much everything I do.
The situation definitely varies,
Guess it’s fair to say that you do have a bunch of Students that hold onto a more traditional value.
Here’s a stat that suggests the OP’s students might be more conservative that average. In 2009-10, 10,188 young Taiwanese visited Australia on working holiday visas. These visas are only available to 20 to 30 year olds. They are expected to come to Australia for 6 months, work for a while, and then blow their money having a good time in Australia. (I know a Taiwanese girl who did exactly that.) It’s supposed to be good for the tourism industry, and also fill a need for short term and seasonal workers.
The figure of 10,188 is the second highest in Asia (Korea is no. 1) and higher than most European countries (including liberal ones like Netherlands and Sweden) and also higher than Canada.
Oh, you don’t need to leave your own country for this to happen, college anyone… Bet it’s more likely where I am from (USA) than say if i went to Japan or other places.
[quote]
Here’s a stat that suggests the OP’s students might be more conservative that average. In 2009-10, 10,188 young Taiwanese visited Australia on working holiday visas. These visas are only available to 20 to 30 year olds. They are expected to come to Australia for 6 months, work for a while, and then blow their money having a good time in Australia. (I know a Taiwanese girl who did exactly that.) It’s supposed to be good for the tourism industry, and also fill a need for short term and seasonal workers.[/quote]
Possibly attitudes are changing and parents are starting to give in to the younger generation. 188? Is that a lot. I wonder if they did a survey and asked 100 pairs of parents in Taipei if this was OK for them how many would say yes? I bet it is increasing.
adikarmika: Yes, I’d say things are definitely changing. I have known several young Taiwanese women who have gone to Australia for a working holiday. One of my wife’s best friends will be doing so later this year. Also, many of her friends have travelled alone or in small groups to other Western countries (and some non-Western countries too). It might be some sort of sampling bias (given that I’m basing this on language exchange ads or dating websites), but I think outside of the countryside, it’s very rare to meet Taiwanese women who haven’t been to a dozen countries by the time they are in their early thirties. In fact, precisely because fewer are getting married and having kids than their mothers or aunts, it’s kind of what they do. They don’t pop out a kid. They go to Portugal.
Just last night, two twenty year old Taiwanese girls told me that Americans are so much more open. I asked what they meant and they said that, for instance, I have a kid and no husband, but they both don’t even have a boyfriend yet.
Of course, they don’t know my situation and, God bless their hearts, they thought I was only a little older than them–not very nearly twice their age!
But they went on to talk about how they don’t want to get married or have kids. They like living with their parents and want to save money.
Another thought about the older students feelings is that in Taiwan, relationshps carry obligations. That includes dating. I think one reason that parents often don’t want their kids dating early is to limit these types of obligations for their kids, and by extention, for themselves. And if you call every night, or keep your child living at home as long as possible, you have more control over all their other relationships and every aspect of their lives.
I think there’s a massive generational change coming in Taiwan. At least the city folk I know seem to be heading that way. They’re becoming a lot more Western/cosmopolitan/modern. Sometimes it’s good, as in they’re getting out and seeing and experiencing more. Sometimes, it’s bad as in they’re getting fatter/more obese, they’re spending their money like drunken sailors and they’re not having kids.
[quote]But they went on to talk about how they don’t want to get married or have kids. They like living with their parents and want to save money.
Another thought about the older students feelings is that in Taiwan, relationshps carry obligations. That includes dating. I think one reason that parents often don’t want their kids dating early is to limit these types of obligations for their kids, and by extention, for themselves. And if you call every night, or keep your child living at home as long as possible, you have more control over all their other relationships and every aspect of their lives.[/quote]
housecat
Why do they like living w/their parents? What reasons are given? That would tell me a lot. Free food, a room or whatever. It depends. Not specific enough.
Dating carries obligations? WTF? At 16 or 17,18 my obligations were to come home on time, be respectful to the girl, be polite to her parents and introduce the girl to my parents at some point. It wasn’t serious. My family and I knew when it was serious. My mom taught me all of this. Kids here date anyway now. Again what specific obligation?
Yes, CONTROL the kids and every aspect of their lives, like a slave? Why would a secure person that gives the kids a proper environment “training” would be so worried. Especially at 21, 22,…Dogs need control. I love how some of the guys/girls in my class 20 or 21 have never been out on 1 date even a movie. The guys date is usually w/ his PC!
Oh Dangergyrl is right. Young guys get in to way more trouble at home and abroad and everybody worries about the girls. Anyway thanks for the insight everyone.
My experience has been that Taiwanese parents do not control their kids equally. By that I mean, if you’re the eldest or only son, you have more obligations than your siblings. Daughters are not so important. If they choose not to marry, that’s much less of a problem for the parents than if their eldest or only son chooses not to marry. He has the responsibility of carrying on the family name.
[quote=“jampacking”]My parent have taken really good care of me, but at the same time they’ve taught me how to take care of myself so they never worried about me.
[/quote]
As a parent, I can tell you with about 99.9% certainty that your parents worry about you.
[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“jampacking”]My parent have taken really good care of me, but at the same time they’ve taught me how to take care of myself so they never worried about me.
[/quote]
As a parent, I can tell you with about 99.9% certainty that your parents worry about you.[/quote] Quoted for truth!
I’ve told this story many times, so apologies to anyone who has already heard/read it:
GIT is absolutely right, about both the change and the good and bad of it. Years ago, a classmate friend of mine from Beijing was at my parents’ house for Thanksgiving dinner. Her younger sister was visiting from Seattle with her new boyfriend, a Taiwanese doctor, and they joined us at my parents’ house. At first, the sister and boyfriend were quite animated and cheerful, but, after my friend spoke privately with her younger sister, their mood seemed to be dampened, just a bit, but noticable.
I later asked my friend what she had siad to her younger sister, and noted that the younger sister seemed to have quieted down somewhat. My friend informed me that she decided that she didn’t like her younger sisters’ boyfriend and told her to part with him. That was that. Her younger sister agreed to part with the Taiwanese doctor. She wasn’t particularly pleased about the instructions, but, she accepted them just the same.
When I told my family about this incident, they were all shocked and wondered how a) my friend could be so authoritarian toward her younger (adult) sister and b) how her younger adult sister could accept such a demand regarding such a personal matter.
I tried to explain how it often works on this side of the planet in families… family dynamics and all that… but, the idea was still difficult for my family to get their heads around. I tried explaining that my wife has a great deal of say when it comes to her younger sister’s affairs. But, still no understanding.
So, I reminded them of a tragedy that took place in a family that was very close to us. In that (American) family, one of the daughters was seeing a no-good SOB kid from down the road. The girl’s father tried in vain to convince his daughter to part with the kid, but she wouldn’t have anything to do with her father’s advice. He even tried bribing her with a new car. But, she just lied to her father and continued seeing the guy. At some point later on, the girl did break up with the guy, and he showed his true colors (that were evident to all except her for a long time). he set one of the barns on fire and destroyed everything in the barn and killed several horses and a dog. A few years later, this girl eneded up with another loser, again against the counsel of her family, and eventually he beat her and she lives separate from him but still in a bad way. Her family has pleaded with her to return… they even have a house for her… yet, she refuses to go home.
I was raised to be independent, like most western people. But, there is no denying that most families love and are concerned about their family members. As to the difference between western families and Chinese/Taiwanese families, it just a matter of degree.
I think many Taiwanese/Chinese people accept that their families love and care for them more than anyone else, including new boy/girlfriends, and agree to a familial comtract whereby they accept their parents’ advice and counsel and interfering in exchange for some obvious advantages. Of course its more complex than this and anyone who has been here for a while knows this and knows of the complexities to which I refer.
Which system is better? I don’t know. It probably depends on each case and individual. But, for many Chinese/Taiwanese, at least in the past, it was much easier and simpler to rely on their parents for many things, including a spousal match, accepting that they had their best interests in mind. Someone above already mentioned the collectivist aspect of Asian culture, and so, of course one’s best interest takes into account the best interest of the family, too.
Note: My friend, her sister, and my wife are all in their 50s… so, my stories above apply much less to today’s 20-30 somethings.
It is also likely that the Taiwanese parents would be PAYING for the kids’, I mean young adults’, trips, and feel like they have a right to know what is going on.
What Ifind amusing is the amount of prostitute travelling that goes on here. You know, the Taiwanese girl that “studied” in Japan, or the young man who somehow managed to afford to travel to the States for several months. (Maybe that’s why the parents need to check up on their kids.) :neutral: