China Post p19: Indonesia woman who was raped by her Taiwanese prospective father-in-law, impregnated by the rapist, and consequently rejected by her prospective husband, is to be deported. The rapist got two years in jail. That’s a nice story isn’t it ?
So you see, ladies and gentlemen, if they do this to some Indonesian girl who was fucking raped for Chrissakes and has a rape baby to bring up, do you think they give a flying fuck about some music playing foreigner in Taibong ?
Does anyone here honestly believe the FAP or MOFA would pass up a chance to deport a foreigner !!!? Like they would go “well, we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt” HAHAHAHA!
[quote=“tinman”]Serious questions here boys and girls.
How does one know if the ‘volunteer work’ you’re involved in is illegal?
Is this a Taidong thing? Afterall. the place isn’t the most progressive part of Taiwan?
Has anyone ever been deported for this in Taipei or Kaohsiung (Gaoxiong)? Stuff like this goes on ALL THE TIME here, and I’ve never heard of any problems.
Richard states that there’s pretty much nothing that can be done about this law. While I believe his judgment to be impeccable, is there another interpretation of the situation?[/quote]
The deal is that it is illegal to work without a work permit, regardless of whether you are getting paid or not.
[quote=“tinman”]
2. Is this a Taidong thing? Afterall. the place isn’t the most progressive part of Taiwan?[/quote]
Taidong and Hualien have had foreigner-unfriendly officialdom as long as I’ve been in Taiwan (15 years), quite in contrast with the local citizens. A double shame when the foreign tourist would find the east coast the most attractive side of the island. To bad the cops over there make it so clear you’re not welcome.
[quote=“Michael J Botti”]I’ve been a volunteer crossing guard at my daughter’s school for 4 years…Am I breaking the law? (I do have a JFRV)
I’ve never gotten anything other than thumbs-ups from the cops here…[/quote]
I am still wanting to know if a JFRV would give you protection from this.
Here is what I assume to be true.
A foreigner with a JFRV and ARC has Open work rights in Taiwan.
That foreigner may undertake any employment, or any number of jobs, that a Taiwanese resident (suitably qualified) would be able to take.
The same qualifications that are required for a local would also be required by the foreigner.
Since a volunteer position would be defined by the government as work, then there shouldn’t be any reason why a foreigner, with a JFRV, couldn’t take the position. The fact that it is unpaid shouldn’t be a factor. If you don’t get paid, that’s your choice.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“tinman”]
2. Is this a Taidong thing? Afterall. the place isn’t the most progressive part of Taiwan?[/quote]
Taidong and Hualian have had foreigner-unfriendly officialdom as long as I’ve been in Taiwan (15 years), quite in contrast with the local citizens. A double shame when the foreign tourist would find the east coast the most attractive side of the island. To bad the cops over there make it so clear you’re not welcome.[/quote]
It is strange. That both Hualien and Taitong, mainly Aborigine areas, but run by non-Aborigine officials, treat foreigners like Scott this way. And both areas are KMT strongholds, right?
I think this Ezell case is purely a Taitung thing, and even more, purely a Mark Chen Top Cop thing, as wendao explained, there was trouble between the two two years ago. Maybe Officer Chen was tailing him all this time, looking for revenge.
Look at all the foreigners who play music in Taipei. No problems. This entire thing appears to be a personal vendetta in the outback.
Yes it does, in theory. In practice it might not if the administrative agency doesn’t know or ignores the law. In Taiwan, the police have the power to deport people without any kind of judicial review. So that means the police can deport Scott no matter what the law says because there is no judge to stop them at this point.
Scott can file an adminstrative appeal, which if he won, he could return. But filing an appeal mightl not stop the deportation process (see the Chocolate case). I think the key now is to get the administrative agency in charge of cultural permances in Dulan to step in and say that it is OK for foreigners to do volunteer performances. The appropriate agency is probably the Taidong County Government Bureao of Culture’s Department for the Promotion of the Arts:
藝文推廣課 (Yiwen tuiguang ke) ：089-350382
If they step in, I think Chen will have to back off.
Taidong is a backwater where foreigners and locals alike are probably often bullied by overbearing authorities. But Taiwan is a country ruled by law and cases like this can be fought and won. What is the legal basis for volunteer work being illegal? I don’t see anything in the Employent Services Law.
Probably the catch-all “activities incompatible with the purpose of the visa” clause.
I think its a vendetta by this Peter Chen fellow. Didn’t he try but fail to get drugs charges brought against the two deported guys before getting them on document forgery? Loss of face is a terrible thing.
Look at all the foreigners who play music in Taipei. No problems. This entire thing appears to be a personal vendetta in the outback.[/quote]
Not always so. A couple of foreign DJs I know have been harrassed. Many times when visiting foreign DJs come here to play and the police show up at the venue, the DJs are asked to step down, just in case. In fact, many times when big name DJs play here they are doing it illegally, without their knowledge. The club will tell their agents, “Oh, you don’t need a work permit.” You can bet when I used to spin the hits, I felt a lot safer doing it at say, the American Club, then some seedy place.
As far as TV appearances go, there used to be some law where foreign singers couldn’t go their act for more than 3 minutes. Not sure if this is still the case.
Does anyone remember when the wife of an AmCham got busted for working illegally? She almost got deported, but was let off the hook. It all depends on the cops’ mood.
BTW, not everyone with an ARC and open work permit got it via JFRV.
The CLA recommends that when the police are trying to determine whether a performance by perfomers in a public establishment is amateur (shi4chang4) or not (i.e. does it violate the Employment Services Law), they should not get stuck on the word ‘amateur’. Instead they should look for the following:
Is it a public place of business?
Are [foreigners] performing during business hours.
Is the performance under the direction or supervison of the responsible person or the manager?
If so, then the CLA recommends that the police photograph or record the performance and take a statement.
This matches the earlier description of the incident and what happened afterward very closely.
Now, I’m not a lawyer, but I do know that administrative agencies are not allowed to make up the law. And that’s definitely what they are doing here. The prohibitions against hiring (pin4gu4) foreigners very clearly apply to an exchange of wages for work. So the CLA should be telling the police to prove that the cafe paid Scott. Otherwise, as other posters have pointed out, all volunteer work would be illegal.
I’m sure that’s why the letter only pretends to cite the law at the end. If you actually go look at the Articles cited, they have nothing to do with free performances or volunteer work. This letter has no basis in the law at all. Scott should definitely see a lawyer.
[quote=“Hartzell”]I have said it before over and over again, and no one pays any attention – foreigners are not allowed to do volunteer activities without a WORK PERMIT.
Indeed, you may feel that such a rule is arbitrary and unfair, but that is the rule, and as of yet no one has been able to get it changed.
I personally have spent a lot of time challenging this rule, but without success … so far anyway. I have another court hearing coming up in a month or so …[/quote]
I think that Hartzell is the resident legal eagle, and as he had stated, he has spent a lot of time fighting this sort of “regulation” (in the courts apparently), but with no success …
Pursuing the law as a hobby is a little different from having a law degree don’t you think Falcon?? And I can only imagine that Chinese not being Hartzell’s native language (ok, I am assuming here) this only complicates things for him.
Many foreigners think that Taiwan is not ruled by law until they find out otherwise. They are simply ignorant of the law and how it works here. This is also true of many Taiwanese.
Maybe this should be a new thread. I know of many cases where foreigner X went to adminstrative agency and was told that she couldn’t do whatever she wanted to do. After an administrative appeal was filed, she was able to do it.
Of course you need a good lawyer and $$$ to do this. So let em amend that: Taiwan is ruled by law if you have enough money to afford the lawyers to get the law enforced.
Taiwan’s legal system still needs a lot of improvement, but it if you think Taiwan is not ruled by law, however imperfectly, you are misinformed.
Look at all the foreigners who play music in Taipei. No problems. This entire thing appears to be a personal vendetta in the outback.[/quote]
Not always so. A couple of foreign DJs I know have been harrassed. Many times when visiting foreign DJs come here to play and the police show up at the venue, the DJs are asked to step down, just in case.[/quote]
And what about those Japanese AV porno girls who come to Taipei for car show or computer show and strut their stuff as a porn star book promotion, all done without a work permit too. Of course, maybe the police like that stuff more than foreigners playing other kinds of instruments…
“Taiwan is ruled by law if you have enough money to afford the lawyers to get the law enforced.”
Well most countries, IMHO, are like this Feiren. It is not unique to Taiwan. A petty crook in the U.S., will spend months in jail awaiting trial because he can’t afford a private attorney whereas a millionaire murderer will be out on bail within 24 hours…the best legal system money can buy.
And I can only imagine that Chinese not being Hartzell’s native language (ok, I am assuming here) this only complicates things for him.